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CONLANG  October 2005, Week 3

CONLANG October 2005, Week 3

Subject:

Re: weird celtic sentence - help!

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 21 Oct 2005 09:20:03 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (167 lines)

Elliott Lash wrote:
[snip]
> topics. There's no mention of what language they're
> in, but it seems to be some sort of Celtic. 

In the same sort of way that Sindarin seems to be, methinks.

> I checked
> both Cornish and Breton dictionaries for clues, but I
> dont think the sentences are in either of those. I'm
> sure it's not Welsh. 

You're correct - the sentences do have a sort of 'Brittonic-Celtic'
appearance, Dialect A being sort of 'Welshish' & Dialect B being more
like Cornish or Breton in feel. But I detect at least one Gaelic feature  :)

> That leaves a conlang. 

Indeed it does - and they must surely be a conlang.

[snip]
> There seem to be 2 dialects and furthermore some minor
> variation with the dialects themselves:

Well, maybe at the time you were experimenting with different possibilities?

> DIALECT A:
> 1) Dyliet       py sedw?  
>    "Will you go to university?"

Presumably -(e)t means "you" - but the stem _dyl_ is not a Brittonic one
for 'go'. In fact all the lexical morphemes here seem to be original
creations. Welsh for 'to' is _i_ and 'university' is _prifysgol_.

> 
> 2)  Cha, sym fi.
>     "Yes, I am *[going to go]"

_sym_ is reminiscent of Latin 'sum' and _fi_ is spelled the same as
Welsh 'fi' [vi] (a common mutation of 'mi') = 'I/ me'.

> 
> 3) Wys  dy  na ddoled py te hedw?
>    "Are you going     to the university?"

_dy_ is the Welsh for 'thy/ your', the pronoun being _ti_ (with soft
mutation _di_). _na_ is possibly an inversion of the Welsh predicate
particle 'yn' [@n] and _ddoled_ is presumably modeled on the Welsh
verbnoun with -ed, which is one of the possible suffixes.

_te_ = 'the' is very 'un-Celtic' but has of course parallels in some
other IE langs. But the soft mutation of _sedw_ --> _hedw_ is
interesting as this is not a feature of the Brittonic langs, but is a
feature of the Gaelic langs      :)

> 
> 4) Cha, sym e^.
>    "Yes, I am *[going to go]"
> 
> (with _e^_ instead of _fi_ for "I")

Umm - I have no suggestions for the change of _fi_ to _e^_

> 
> 5) Chascwr sym e^.
>   "Of course, I am *[going to go]"
> 
> 6) Ce^yth dwy t'elrynoch gydot?
>    "What  is  the name [at you]?"

_Ce^yth_ if from a PIE with initial k_w- is a Gaelic and not a Brittonic
feature (the Brittonic lags have initial p- in such cases).

_dyw_ "is" is reminiscent of welsh 'ydwy' "is". _elrynoch_ would seem to
be an original coinage, but _gydot_ a bit like the south Walian 'gyda ti'
"with you".

> 
> 7) Heldy dwy t'elrynoch gydom.
>   "Heldy is  the name [at me]."

Yes, conjugated prepositions are a feature of all the Insular Celtic langs.

> 
> 8) Heldy  dwy cha.
>    "Heldy is  it"
> 
> 9) Ce^yth wys dy na wnar?
>    "What  are you doing?"

Thinks: "Is _wnar_ a mix of Welsh _(g)wneud_ and Romance forms like Fr.
faire, It. fare (Esperanto 'fari')?

> 
> 9) Sym e^ dyscibyl.
>     "I am a student."

_dyscibyl_ is obviously meant to be a borrowing from Latin _discipulus_
after the manner of welsh 'disgybl'.

> 
> DIALECT B;
> 1)   As  te  dholed av th'universitet?
>     "Are you going  to the university?"

This dialect borrows more from the neighboring Romance lang, I guess  :)

> 
> 2) Vi, em ew.
>    "Yes, I am."

Interesting - _em_ is both reminiscent of English _am_ and Greek _eimi_;
similar forms are of course found in other IE langs. _ew_ is similar to
Portuguese & Romanian 'eu' = "I".

> 
> 3)   As te   dheul ov ar universitet?
>     "Are you going to the university?"
> 
> (with _dheul_ instead of _dholed_ for "going", and
>  _ar_ instead of _th'_ for "the". _av_ is spelled _ov_
> here for "to")

Umm - _ar_ is one of the Breton forms of "the" (ar/ al/ an).

> 
> 4) Wi, em ew.
>    "Yes I am."
> 
> (with _vi_ spelled as _wi_ for "yes")

French _oui_ ??

> 5) Kealar as d'errneuc'h te?
>    "What   is your name your?" 

Do I detect the Breton spelling convention _c'h_ = /x/?

>    
> 6) Herik  as ho.
>    "Herik is it."
> 
> 7) Kealar as te farket?
>    "what  are you doing?"

_farket_ shows even more Romance influence than _wnar_   ;)

> 
> 8) Em ew astudyan~.
>    "I am a student" 

Surely the Breton convention of spelling [a~] as _ań_ - but this time a
borrowing (via the neighboring Romance lang) from Latin _studente(m)_.

Interesting - but I have no doubt they are conlangs. I would guess that
Dialect is meant to be more heavily influenced by a Romance speaking
neighbor than is Dialect A - sort of like Breton vis-a-vis Welsh. Were
you possibly sketching out an alternative to IB?

-- 
Ray
==================================
[log in to unmask]
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
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