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CONLANG  November 2005, Week 1

CONLANG November 2005, Week 1

Subject:

Re: : Butterflies

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 5 Nov 2005 08:06:25 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (63 lines)

Paul Bennett wrote:
> On Thu, 03 Nov 2005 16:14:26 -0500, R A Brown 
> <[log in to unmask]>  wrote:
> 
>> caeruleancentaur wrote:
>>
>>> pili-pala.  This last one is a delightful word; is it onomatopoetic?
>>
>>
>> AFAIK, yes. In my 22 years sojourn in Wales, it was the only term I  
>> actually heard in speech. Possibly the variants are regional.
>>
>> [snip]
>>
>>>  I've saved the Latin until last.  The Latin word is papilio (-nis)  
>>> which AHD says is of unknow origin.
>>
>>
>>  From which comes French 'papillon'
> 
> 
> Maybe my brain is seeing patterns where there are none, but I can't 
> help  but notice the "pili" in both the Welsh and Latin forms. I doubt 
> the Welsh  form influenced the Latin, but is it plausible that the 
> occupying Romans  helped (in some way) the ancient Welsh choose which of 
> the myriad possible  onomatopoeias sounded most suitable?

'Papilio' was borrowed by ancient British. It gives the modern Welsh 
_pabell_ (pl. _pebyll_) = "tent, pavilion".

The derived meaning of 'tent' is as old as the Classical period of 
Latin, and our word 'pavilion' is of course also derived from it via Old 
French _pavillon_ when |ll| was pronounced [L]. Indeed, French 
_papillon_ does not show the expected sound changes that would occur in 
a word inherited from Vulgar Latin and must be due a later, learned 
borrowing directly from Latin.

The other question is how ancient _pili-pala_ is. In Welsh's sister 
languages, the word for 'butterfly' is:
Breton: _balafenn_ (pl. balafenned)
Cornish: tykky-Dew

There doesn't seem to be any commonality there; also the Welsh 
periphrases _ir fach yr haf_ and _glyn byw_ suggest to me that there 
was no established British word for the critter nor any borrowing from 
Vulgar Latin with the meaning "butterfly".

I had assumed that_pili-pala_ began its life as a hypocorism. If it is 
of ancient origin and there is any connexion with the Latin form (and I 
am skeptical about either) then I would think it more likely that both 
the British & the Latin forms shared a common source (we do not, as 
Charlie reminded us, know the etymology of the Latin word).



-- 
Ray
==================================
[log in to unmask]
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
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