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AUXLANG  November 2005, Week 2

AUXLANG November 2005, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Types of neutrality, and central concerns for an IAL

From:

Jim Henry <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Mon, 14 Nov 2005 16:45:32 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (112 lines)

On 11/14/05, Risto Kupsala <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> From: "Via_Acadon" <[log in to unmask]>

> There's three basic reasons why, in my opinion, larger number of non-western
> words would attract more non-western learners for an IAL:

> 1. Increased ease of learning for non-westerners because there would be less
> new words to memorize. On the other hand they could grasp the language faster
> because they would know some words already. It is one of the main selling
> points of Interlingua, Ido, Esperanto, etc. in the West. So why wouldn't it
> apply in the global scale as well?*

Possibly because outside the western Indo-European
languages there is not such a large group of widely
spoken languages with so much vocabulary in common?
Yes, there are the subcontinental Indo-European
languages, and the Sinitic languages, and the various
non-semitic languages that have borrowed a lot
of vocabulary from Arabic.  But even taking advantage
of all that you would wind up with a language which
would have only a small fraction of words recognizable
to most of the people in the world.  Furthermore,
with the simple phonology required to produce an
IAL easily pronounced by everyone, the
vocabulary borrowed from most sources would be
unrecognizable, having at best only a mnemonic
value.  (I suspect most speakers of Mandarin
or Cantonese would regard words borrowed into
a non-tonal IAL much as Europeans regarded the
"deformed" vocabulary of Volapük; and the western
European languages are not the only ones
whose vocabulary would have to be stripped
of consonant clusters and voicing distinctions
to be usable in a simple-phonology IAL.)

That's not to say I think Esperanto or the other
euroclones are ideal; far from it.  But a more global
vocabulary would not be the most important or
the most feasible improvement to look for,
I think.  Simpler grammar and simpler phonology
would be both more readily achievable, and more
important to a larger proportion of the world's population.

> 2. People would be more motivated to learn an IAL that shows appreciation to
> their culture (by borrowing words from their language) than a language that
> arguably deprecates their culture. A multicultural IAL could not possibly have
> any serious historical (or colonial) burden.**

This is an improvement, but I think Don is
probably right that most people would not
regard it as very important relative to
more pragmatic questions like how many speakers
the conlang already has, when they are deciding
whether to learn it.  For instance,
Konya or Dunia might be twice as easy as Esperanto
for someone whose native language doesn't
have consonant clusters or final consonants
other than nasals, etc; but most such people
would still rather learn Esperanto because
(at least) tens of thousands of times more people speak
it.  So any of the tiny non-Euroclone auxlangs
would need to have a long period of slow growth
among idealists who see Esperanto/Ido/Interlingua's
non-neutrality as a serious problem,
before they would have a large enough speaker
population to look pragmatically attractive
to people who want to get some immediate
use out of any language they learn.

> 3. Due to decreased learning time (if you accept the claims 1. and 2.)

No, I don't think a more global vocabulary would
decrease learning time for an IAL very much
for most people - not compared to other possible
improvements like simpler grammar and phonotactics.
Suppose it took 20% of its vocabulary from one Chinese language or
another, we might expect it to
be _at best_ 20% faster to learn for monolingual
speakers of Chinese than another IAL
that's similar except for taking all of it's vocabulary
from European languages -- but because of the
deformations caused by lack of tones, and
inability to reliably guess which words are derived from
Chinese and which from some other language
with similar phonotactics, the improvement would
probably be more like 10% at best and probably
less.  For speakers of Guarani or Kurdish
or other languages that might contribute
little or no vocabulary to the IAL, there would
not even be that much improvement.
Still, every little bit helps.

> teaching resources would be saved, which could be important in poor areas.
> This is particularly important, because IAL is more important for poor
> countries. For the time being, rich countries do not need an IAL because they
> have enough resources to spend for long term education.

This is all true in theory, but before it becomes
relevant in practice we'll need to grow a serious
speaker community for some non-Euroclone
IAL, and then *produce learning materials in
many languages*.  Already existing textbooks
and dictionaries for Esperanto are more
valuable for speakers of Persian, for instance,
than textbooks and dictionaries for Konya or Ceqli
that haven't been written yet, much less
translated into Persian.

--
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/review/log.htm

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