On Mon, 30 Jan 2006, Young, John T wrote:
> I don't understand how the first/second person pronoun rule of thumb
> would work
I knew I shouldn't have put that in there. And I should have specified
"*possessive* pronouns" (i.e. those found in common formulae like those
listed--'my lord,' 'yours truly,' etc.). And it *is* just a rule of thumb,
meaning that it doesn't bear close examination or work on hard cases.
Our real (abstract) rule is probably close to yours, and might be
stated thus (again, probably badly--as the TEI definitions suggest,
these are hard to define when you try, at least for me):
<SIGNED> contains the name of the signatory/ies (if present),
phrases descriptive of or modifying the signatory, and associated
leave-taking formulae; <SALUTE> contains the name of the addressee(s),
if present, phrases descriptive of or modifying the addressee, and
associated greeting formulae. All of which is to say, that we start
from the clear cases and work up from there as far as we can:
<signed>with most sincere love, john, your humble adorer</signed>
<signed>with rank hatred, your implacable enemy till the end of the world,
<salute>mary, my friend, greetings and good morning</salute>
<salute>to my most excellent mary, illustrious goddess of the universe,
grace, peace, and long reign be yours.</salute>
> for salutations and signings off that contain both, such as
> 'Noble and most trusted, we greet you well' or 'I remain, Sir, yours
> ever to command'.
> It seems fairly obvious that in these examples the first is <salute>
> and the second is <signed>, but it isn't the pronouns that indicate
> that. Am I missing something?
No. As above. I too would take the first as <salute> and the
second as <signed>, though acknowledging that each has some small
admixture of the other in it (e.g. the "Sir" in the second is a kind
of recapitulation of the opening <salute>Sir:</salute>). These are
no real trouble , but more complex or balanced mixtures do prove troubling
to us, e.g.
Farewell, my love.
To John Smith, esq., illustrious sir, please accept the greetings
of the humblest of your servants, J. Jones.
The first we would probably simply leave in <CLOSER> without further
specification. The second we might put in <salute>, might leave
in an undivided <opener>, or most likely would probably split with
the first line in <salute> and the second in <signed>, none of
which seems quite right.