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CONLANG  January 2006, Week 3

CONLANG January 2006, Week 3

Subject:

Re: [Theory] Types of numerals; bases in natlangs.

From:

tomhchappell <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 17 Jan 2006 17:57:46 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (137 lines)

--- In [log in to unmask], Herman Miller <hmiller@I...> wrote:
>
> veritosproject@g... wrote:
> > MiB, KiB are "mibibyte" and "kibibyte".  Technically, unlike what 
you
> > have heard, a kilobyte and megabyte are really exactly 1000 and
> > 1000000 units.  A kibibyte is 1024 bytes and a mibibyte is 1024
> > kibibytes.
> 
> A kilobyte is never 1000 bytes; "byte" isn't an SI unit and doesn't 
> follow the SI rules. A megabyte technically shouldn't be a million 
bytes 
> either, but someone in a hard disk marketing department thought it 
was a 
> good idea. In the context of RAM, a megabyte is always 2^20 bytes 
> (1,048,576). No one in my experience ever uses the 
bizarre "kibibyte" 
> and "mibibyte". The abbreviation "K" is generally used in place of 
> "kilobyte" (which is rarely heard). "Meg" and "megabyte" are both 
in 
> common use.
> 
> There really is no logical reason to want a name for a block of 
1,000 or 
> 1,000,000 bytes. The confusion could easily have been avoided by 
> sticking with the traditional definitions, and just saying "a 
million 
> bytes" if for some reason you want to talk about a million bytes.
>

My own personal experience is exactly the above.
I once had Social Security and IRS come to my company's EDP 
department and ask us to submit payroll information in records 275 
bytes long.
Our machine was a 16-bit word machine, and couldn't record an odd 
number of bytes.  Furthermore the last 19 bytes of the 275 bytes was 
unused; 256 bytes would have made more sense.  I figure some computer-
type in the government got the idea of asking us to use a record 
format that was 256 bytes long, then some senior computer-illiterate 
bean-counter-type thought "256 characters? That's a peculiar number!  
Why not make it 275 characters, like two-and-three-quarters dollars 
would be $2.75 = 275 cents?" and overrode the originator.

--- In [log in to unmask], Paul Bennett <paul-bennett@E...> 
wrote:
>
> On Sun, 15 Jan 2006 11:44:13 -0500, <veritosproject@g...> wrote:
> 
> > MiB, KiB are "mibibyte" and "kibibyte".
> 
> Correct, and pretty much uncontestable.
> 
> > Technically, unlike what you
> > have heard, a kilobyte and megabyte are really exactly 1000 and
> > 1000000 units.  A kibibyte is 1024 bytes and a mibibyte is 1024
> > kibibytes.
> 
> Not "technically" anything. The IEEE have had various standards, 
the SI  
> has one standard, ISO and ANSI have kinda had some sorts of 
standards if  
> you ask the right quesions, and there's the various standards that 
include  
> things like K=1024, M=1024000, and even the standard that defines  
> approximately 1.44 million bytes as *two* megabytes. There's no 
unified  
> standard that applies (unlike with -i suffix numbers), so no way to 
say  
> "technically" what the unsuffixed numbers might or might not mean.
> 
> You can't refer to a "standard" that simply is not adhered to as 
being  
> standard. I might as well invent my own method based on an 
alternating 9^3  
> / 9^4 system, and call that standard, just because I say so.
> 
> 
> 
> Paul
>

I agree with the above.

--- In [log in to unmask], "Mark J. Reed" <markjreed@M...> wrote:
>
> AJ = Andreas Johansson
> TM = Tristan McLeay
> VP = Veritosproject
> 
> AJ> There's also Mo = megaoctet. But I seem to see MiB, TiB, etc 
with some
> AJ> frequency.
> 
> TM> "Megoctet", I think, isn't -a dropped before o-? 
(Also "megohm".)
> 
> Final vowels in the SI prefixes in general, in English at least 
since
> the spoken prefixes vary by language, are dropped before a vowel 
when
> the bivocalic pronunciation is considered "awkward" - thus, 1/1000th
> of an ohm is milliohm, not *millohm, even though 1000000 ohms is a
> megohm, not *megaohm.  A notable exception to this rule is the cgs
> unit "erg", which sprouts a leading L when the prefix ends in a 
vowel:
> megalerg, not *megerg.
> 
> Since the word "octet" starts with a different vowel from "ohm" (/O/
> or /a/, as opposed to /o/), its awkwardness is independent, despite
> the same spelling.  It could go either way; I find "megaoctet" 
rather
> less awkward than "megaohm"; the final /@/ of "mega' tends to
> disappear entirely in the latter, but not in the former.
> 
> VP> MiB, KiB are "mibibyte" and "kibibyte".  Technically, unlike 
what you
> VP> have heard, a kilobyte and megabyte are really exactly 1000 and
> VP> 1000000 units.  A kibibyte is 1024 bytes and a mibibyte is 1024
> VP> kibibytes.
> 
> A clear case of prescription flying in the face of usage.  Almost
> nobody uses the binary prefixes, but still use "kilobyte" to refer 
to
> 1,024 bytes.  In their seven years of existence, the binary prefixes
> have won some converts, but their use is still very much in the
> minority.  And the International Electrotechnical Commission's
> recommendation for their use is not really enough to allow a blanket
> statement that the use of the older prefixes for powers of 2 is
> "technically" incorrect.  Beware the sweeping generalization. :)
> --
> Mark J. Reed <markjreed@m...>
>

I agree with the above.

Tom H.C. in MI

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