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CONLANG  January 2006, Week 5

CONLANG January 2006, Week 5

Subject:

Re: OFFLIST: Re: Non-linear full-2d writing (again)

From:

Tom Chappell <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 31 Jan 2006 17:08:32 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (348 lines)

--- Sai Emrys <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> Tom -
> 
> > I thought Jeff W's G.A. was a good approximation
> to a foundation for an
> > example of what you were looking for.
> >
> > I didn't think by any means all examples of what
> you were looking for
> > needed to resemble Jeff's much at all, but I
> thought his is the best-
> > worked example that's available on the Web.
> >
> > If, in fact, his G.A. is something "fundamentally
> different" than what
> > you were looking for, I must have misunderstood
> what you were looking
> > for.
> >
> > Could you explain, better, what you are looking
> for, so I won't make a
> > similar mistake again?
> 
> Sure; I'll try to describe it as a diff, since GA
> does have some
> substantially similar features.
> 
> (Also clause this by saying that while I've read
> over the GA page and
> think I understand how it works, I may have
> misunderstood it.)
> 
> First, GA is grid-based. In that sense, it is indeed
> "two-dimensional"
> - literally. It works as an array. My conception of
> 2d is not as an
> array, but freeform; something much more like
> Ouwiyaru in that sense.
> (Actually, Ouwiyaru I think is the closest example
> I've seen to what
> I'd like.)

Ouwiyaru is hard to find.
I found it at
http://www.graffitiweb.org/ouwiyaru/writing.html

> Because of this, GA drastically limits its
> connectivity. It only
> allows immediate local connections - not the
> (nearly) any-to-any
> connectiveness that I would want.*

Ah.  I think I see.

In my post
"
Message number 131804
From: tomhchappell <tomhchappell@...> 
Date: Sat Jun 4, 2005  3:49 am 
Subject: Re: Non-linear / full-2d writing systems?  
From tomhchappell@... Fri Jun 03 21:34:47 2005
Message-ID: <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Sat, 4 Jun 2005 03:49:25 -0000
Reply-To: Constructed Languages List <CONLANG@...>
To: CONLANG@...
In-Reply-To: <Pine.WNT.4.63.0505310936190.14940@acer>
"
I mentioned that subordinate clauses might have
long-distance co-references or long-distance
dependencies; graphically showing this in a NLF2DWS
might introduce loops.

The same might also be true of a two-clause sentence
with an cataphor in the first clause co-refering to a
noun in the second clause, while an anaphor in the
second clause co-refers to a noun in the first clause.
 This type of sentence has a name; but it escapes my
mind, as do the best examples.  Here is an example
I've made up;

If that man knows her, he loves Katy. 

> Second, there do not seem to be significant
> differences (other than
> the connectives) between the 'symbols' in GA. By
> symbol here, I mean
> the ones that are usable as characters - not the
> funadmental parts,
> which I'd think of more like 'radicals' in
> Chinese/Japanese (and which
> in those are indeed psuedo-2d, within their
> characters). This seems a
> suboptimal design; I would like the very shape of
> characters to play a
> *major* role in its visual and grammatical
> structure, and indeed in
> how it can connect.

But, how crucial should this point be?  Is it really
fair to rule out systems such as Jeff W's Glyphica
Arcana just because they don't live up to this second
point as much as you'd like?  I think this is a point
I would call "aesthetic", as you called the
lines-mustn't-cross restriction I had referred to when
talking about flow-charting.

> This point bears a little elaboration. In linear
> writing, the actual
> content of symbols is more or less irrelevant; they
> can be whatever
> shape you like, since all you care about is that
> they are symbol
> #12345 then symbol #12347 then etc. (Imagining that
> each was
> serialized, as is in fact done with hanzi/kanji.)
> Their internal form
> has nothing to do with anything. And, aside from
> some small
> exceptions, they are all moreorless the same size
> (or treated as if
> they were).
> 
> In a 2d system, that would be a *huge* waste.
> Symbols or meta-symbols
> that have low content should also be small and
> simple - e.g. a
> pluralization 'morpheme' or a causal-connection one.

Ouwiyaru's symbols actually represent phonemes, or
perhaps syllables, AFAICT.  Maybe some represent
fundamental, frequent function-particles; I haven't
read it well enough.

> And I'd like that
> symbols that are meant to connect to each other in
> particular ways
> show that.

Ouwiyaru doesn't satisfy that desideratum.

> 
> As a really really really simplified example:
> 
>  X-(  *-Y
> 
> Pretend that X-( is one character (the rightside is
> an actual chunk of
> it as written) and *-Y is also. (I just got out of a
> neuroscience
> class, so this may be a bit familiar in origin to
> some of you...)
> 
> The two connect naturally. Putting two X-figures
> together (or Ys)
> simply wouldn't result in a connection, because they
> don't mate
> appropriately.
> 
> That's a non-overlapping example. Ouwiyaru has what
> I think are some
> pretty neat examples of overlapping connections -
> not as extensive as
> I'd like, but definitely of the kind that I'm
> talking about.

I didn't catch that on any of my (admittedly
non-numerous) readings of Ouwiyaru, yet.  Would you
mind giving me an example?

> Also, that's an example that has no semantics in it,
> which is an
> excessive oversimplification. I would like to see
> the subcomponents,
> the very graphical form, be semantic and otherwise
> functional.
> 
> My 'sketch' paper -
> http://saizai.livejournal.com/590734.html - is a
> pre-alpha version of what I mean in this respect -
> see figures 1-8,
> the 'commercial transaction' frame -
> http://pics.livejournal.com/saizai/pic/0007y17b/g14.
> Note how the form
> indexes the semantic, even in its subparts [like the
> 'goods' node
> travelling within the character to indicate
> ownership]. It would be
> better if the *form* was also somewhat ideographic -
> i.e. looked
> vaguely like what it is intended to represent - but
> its *function* is
> what I'm referring to here. (See the text of the
> paper for an
> explanation, since the diagrams aren't completely
> self-explaining.)

No, I'm sorry, I don't get it.

To me, both your sketch and Ouwiyaru suffer from the
same deficiency that Carsten and I have complained
about to Jefferson Wilson concerning Glyphica Arcana.
Namely:
1) There is no explicit way to tell what the semantics
are of a given way of assembling the elements, nor of
the semantics of the elements within given
assemblages.
2) There is no explicit way to tell how, given a
certain semantic notion-or-idea-or-concept, to choose
which elements to assemble, nor how to connect them,
to express that concept.
 
> There are some other points I could add, but I think
> those two are the
> major ones that come to mind.
> 
> > Jeff's _Glyphs_ are not all the same size nor all
> the same shape.
> >
> > The "_symbols_" out of which the glyphs are
> constructed are all the
> > same size and all the same shape.
> 
> See above for what I intended by 'symbol'. You I
> think are talking of
> what I called 'radicals'

Yes, the things Jeff uses for elementary symbols could
be similar somewhat in use to "radicals" and
"determiners".  

What I had in mind to compare them with were the
"jamo" in Hangul.
I think they are comparable to the things out of which
the "jamo" are constructed.  A glyph is comparable to
a "syllabic block" in Hangul.

But since neither the symbols nor the markers have
phonological nor phonetic values specified by Jeff,
and the symbols also have no semantic values specified
by Jeff, they do _not_ have _precisely_ the functions
that radicals and determiners have in Chinese and
Akkadian and so on, nor for that matter that jamo or
the marks out of which jamo are composed in Korean.

> - they aren't accessible to
> the larger
> (between-'word') syntax, so they're not very
> relevant to it.

True enough, I suppose; except, perhaps, when (if?) he
gets around to it, agreement and concordance and
cross-referencing and flagging and indexing.
 
> > His symbols symbolize something like "distinctive
> features".  His
> > glyphs symbolize something like compound-complex
> words and/or simple-
> > to-medium phrases.
> 
> *nod* Though 'simple' seems to have a really low bar
> (viz. the symbol
> representing God, or Explore, or etc - while these
> do in fact
> represent very complex meanings, I think it a major
> mistake from what
> I know of category representation, frames, etc., to
> try to 'write out'
> these meaning rather than merely point to them.

Well, at least, it looks like you could tell what I
meant.
I think I see what you meant, too, though I don't
think I see why you said it.  Not that I necessarily
disagree; I just don't know what convinced you, nor
why I should agree.
 
> (I'd point out though that the latter is IMO a
> separate question, not
> necessarily related to 2d writing itself. An
> interesting one, though.)
> 
> > He hadn't, the last time I looked, explained how
> to derive the
> > meaning of a glyph from the meanings of the
> "elementary symbols" of
> > which it was constructed, and their relationships;
> nor, given an idea
> > or concept, how to construct the "glyph" to
> represent it.  (No
> > obvious connection, in other words, between a
> glyph's visual
> > structure and its semantics.)  That's why I
> thought his G.A. was a
> > good _foundation_ for the sort of NLF2DWS you were
> looking for, as
> > opposed to being a full-fledged _example_ of such.
>  It's still IME
> > the best-worked-out example available on the web;
> if you know of a
> > better one, or even one almost as good, please let
> me know how to
> > look at it.
> 
> I think he was using the same 'derivation' rules as
> e.g. Leibniz -
> kludged ones. This is another supporting point for
> my statement above
> - like it or not, he's indexing something he's not
> really writing out.
> Symbols are arbitrary; I think (but am not certain)
> that this is an
> inevitability. Having them be *translucent*

A no-longer-really-a-joke term meaning "Not quite
transparent, but also not opaque"?

> - that
> is, have some
> morphemic or sublexemic in any case regularities
> that make them more
> memorable or guessable or whatnot is a Very Good
> Thing. But trying to
> have them as a general rule be *derivable* is, in
> all attempts I have
> seen, a complete failure.
> 
> But hey, perhaps he can do it better. More power to
> him if so. :-)
> 
> May I suggest that you forward this thread back onto
> list and respond there?
> 
>  - Sai
> 

I'll forward my response to your response, without
snipping anything out of your response.  Do you want
me to forward my original message to you, as well?

Tom H.C. in MI


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February 2009, Week 4
February 2009, Week 3
February 2009, Week 2
February 2009, Week 1
January 2009, Week 5
January 2009, Week 4
January 2009, Week 3
January 2009, Week 2
January 2009, Week 1
December 2008, Week 5
December 2008, Week 4
December 2008, Week 3
December 2008, Week 2
December 2008, Week 1
November 2008, Week 5
November 2008, Week 4
November 2008, Week 3
November 2008, Week 2
November 2008, Week 1
October 2008, Week 5
October 2008, Week 4
October 2008, Week 3
October 2008, Week 2
October 2008, Week 1
September 2008, Week 5
September 2008, Week 4
September 2008, Week 3
September 2008, Week 2
September 2008, Week 1
August 2008, Week 5
August 2008, Week 4
August 2008, Week 3
August 2008, Week 2
August 2008, Week 1
July 2008, Week 5
July 2008, Week 4
July 2008, Week 3
July 2008, Week 2
July 2008, Week 1
June 2008, Week 5
June 2008, Week 4
June 2008, Week 3
June 2008, Week 2
June 2008, Week 1
May 2008, Week 5
May 2008, Week 4
May 2008, Week 3
May 2008, Week 2
May 2008, Week 1
April 2008, Week 5
April 2008, Week 4
April 2008, Week 3
April 2008, Week 2
April 2008, Week 1
March 2008, Week 5
March 2008, Week 4
March 2008, Week 3
March 2008, Week 2
March 2008, Week 1
February 2008, Week 5
February 2008, Week 4
February 2008, Week 3
February 2008, Week 2
February 2008, Week 1
January 2008, Week 5
January 2008, Week 4
January 2008, Week 3
January 2008, Week 2
January 2008, Week 1
December 2007, Week 5
December 2007, Week 4
December 2007, Week 3
December 2007, Week 2
December 2007, Week 1
November 2007, Week 5
November 2007, Week 4
November 2007, Week 3
November 2007, Week 2
November 2007, Week 1
October 2007, Week 5
October 2007, Week 4
October 2007, Week 3
October 2007, Week 2
October 2007, Week 1
September 2007, Week 5
September 2007, Week 4
September 2007, Week 3
September 2007, Week 2
September 2007, Week 1
August 2007, Week 5
August 2007, Week 4
August 2007, Week 3
August 2007, Week 2
August 2007, Week 1
July 2007, Week 5
July 2007, Week 4
July 2007, Week 3
July 2007, Week 2
July 2007, Week 1
June 2007, Week 5
June 2007, Week 4
June 2007, Week 3
June 2007, Week 2
June 2007, Week 1
May 2007, Week 5
May 2007, Week 4
May 2007, Week 3
May 2007, Week 2
May 2007, Week 1
April 2007, Week 5
April 2007, Week 4
April 2007, Week 3
April 2007, Week 2
April 2007, Week 1
March 2007, Week 5
March 2007, Week 4
March 2007, Week 3
March 2007, Week 2
March 2007, Week 1
February 2007, Week 4
February 2007, Week 3
February 2007, Week 2
February 2007, Week 1
January 2007, Week 5
January 2007, Week 4
January 2007, Week 3
January 2007, Week 2
January 2007, Week 1
December 2006, Week 5
December 2006, Week 4
December 2006, Week 3
December 2006, Week 2
December 2006, Week 1
November 2006, Week 5
November 2006, Week 4
November 2006, Week 3
November 2006, Week 2
November 2006, Week 1
October 2006, Week 5
October 2006, Week 4
October 2006, Week 3
October 2006, Week 2
October 2006, Week 1
September 2006, Week 5
September 2006, Week 4
September 2006, Week 3
September 2006, Week 2
September 2006, Week 1
August 2006, Week 5
August 2006, Week 4
August 2006, Week 3
August 2006, Week 2
August 2006, Week 1
July 2006, Week 5
July 2006, Week 4
July 2006, Week 3
July 2006, Week 2
July 2006, Week 1
June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
May 2006, Week 4
May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
August 2005, Week 2
August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
July 2005, Week 4
July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
June 2005, Week 4
June 2005, Week 3
June 2005, Week 2
June 2005, Week 1
May 2005, Week 5
May 2005, Week 4
May 2005, Week 3
May 2005, Week 2
May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
February 2005, Week 4
February 2005, Week 3
February 2005, Week 2
February 2005, Week 1
January 2005, Week 5
January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
December 2004, Week 4
December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
November 2004, Week 5
November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
November 2004, Week 2
November 2004, Week 1
October 2004, Week 5
October 2004, Week 4
October 2004, Week 3
October 2004, Week 2
October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
September 2004, Week 4
September 2004, Week 3
September 2004, Week 2
September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
July 2004, Week 4
July 2004, Week 3
July 2004, Week 2
July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
May 2004, Week 4
May 2004, Week 3
May 2004, Week 2
May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
April 2004, Week 4
April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
March 2004, Week 5
March 2004, Week 4
March 2004, Week 3
March 2004, Week 2
March 2004, Week 1
February 2004, Week 5
February 2004, Week 4
February 2004, Week 3
February 2004, Week 2
February 2004, Week 1
January 2004, Week 5
January 2004, Week 4
January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
August 2003, Week 2
August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
July 2003, Week 4
July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
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August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
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July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
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June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
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November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
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July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
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May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
November 1999, Week 5
November 1999, Week 4
November 1999, Week 3
November 1999, Week 2
November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
August 1999, Week 4
August 1999, Week 3
August 1999, Week 2
August 1999, Week 1
July 1999, Week 5
July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
July 1999, Week 1
June 1999, Week 5
June 1999, Week 4
June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
November 1998, Week 2
November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
October 1998, Week 4
October 1998, Week 3
October 1998, Week 2
October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
September 1998, Week 4
September 1998, Week 3

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