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AUXLANG  February 2006, Week 4

AUXLANG February 2006, Week 4

Subject:

Re: The most important auxlang task

From:

Antony Alexander <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:33:56 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (89 lines)

>> ... a vocabulary consisting
>> of words which have already been thoroughly tested in existing languages, ...

Larry Sulky replied,      Mon, 27 Feb 2006 16:05:54 -0500

> I'm not _thoroughly_ a part of that consensus, either. Words get so
> misshapen by being fit into phonologies that are foreign to them that
> they might not be recognisable anyway. But again, I could be wrong,
> and I don't think it hurts to have IAL words that are inspired by
> existing natlang words.

Yes, good point. You’ve made me think about this issue some more. My current opinion is that it 
doesn’t really matter at this stage if a natlang word is somewhat distorted by being bent into a 
rather different phonology a la Procrustes. The commonest words, suitable for a global core 
vocabulary, will often tend to be internationally pronouncable anyway, inasmuch as they also use 
the commonest and most universal phonemes; but if not, there will always be plenty of alternative 
words to choose from.

Another way of looking at it, I think, is that the initial IAL will really be a very rudimentary 
language comparable with the typical utterances of early childhood. Thus, if a young child says 
“pish” for “fish” it isn’t an issue, since we know that the correct pronunciation is likely to emerge 
in due course. 

For the same reason I am now willing to accept that some of the hilariously bashed-about English 
words produced by Unish might be more suitable than their correct equivalents, just as a steak is 
bashed with a meat hammer to tenderise it and make it more palatable.



>> (5) an international vocabulary - with the eventual goal
>> of words from as many languages as possible

Andrew Nowicki replied,           Mon, 27 Feb 2006 17:38:31 -0500

> No consensus at all. How many words
> should be taken from the Polish language?

I agree that there is less consensus about this compared with one or two of the others but hardly 
“no consensus at all”. Most of the putative auxlangs I am aware of seem to derive their vocabulary 
primarily from existing languages.

Obviously I’m not in a position to say how many words should be taken from Polish, but justice 
would surely decree that it should be a number approximately pro rata with the population, and 
that each country should be similarly involved. Having a stake through the incorporation of 
familiar words might give everyone in the world a sense of ownership, thereby encouraging IAL 
participation.

Every nation has tended to specialise in certain cultural fields, whether by accident or design. I 
dare say this specialisation might hone and polish certain words through constant usage - words 
which might then be suitable candidates for the IAL. I don’t know which words might come out of 
Polish. Perhaps you could suggest one or two.



>> (5) an international vocabulary - with the eventual goal of words from as many languages as
>> possible

Rex May replied,    Mon, 27 Feb 2006 21:10:37 -0500

> Yes and no.  I'm hunting up GOOD words for Tceqli from many sources, and I'm choosing them 
> for fit and, I suppose, for there aesthetics.

Would you care to share the criteria you use for choosing words? Do you use an objective or 
scientific system at all, or is your choice mainly subjective and aesthetic?

In case anyone is interested, I published some random thoughts on this subject a few years ago, 
now at http://langx.org/criteriaforcorev.html together with some similar stuff from the Unish site.

Actually I find myself coming around more and more to the importance of Plato’s (or was in 
Socrates’) criterion (see the above list).

For instance, let’s take the word “house”, which is derived via Middle English “hous”, Anglo-Saxon 
“hus” etc. from a common root word which seems to have produced not only this but Dutch “huis”, 
Icelandic “hus”, Danish “huus”, Swedish “hus”, German “haus” etc. (apologies for missing 
diacritics). Obviously this is a popular word, and in a part of the world with a cold, wet climate 
where housing is important. Putting these words to the Platonic test, I am wondering whether the 
fact that the action of utterance tends to produce a space (like a house?) in the mouth is of any 
significance.

Also, I would imagine that such considerations tie in with the priori/posteriori question. In other 
words, should the relation of a sound to an object (a particular word) be selected by one person (a 
priori), or should the word rather be chosen by a process of natural selection over a considerable 
period of time by the everyday choices of a whole population? If there is a correspondence 
between the phonetic signature of the word at its moment of utterance and the object in question, 
as Plato seems to have asserted, the latter method (resulting in an a posteriori vocabulary) would 
seem to be better.

Antony Alexander       http://langx.org

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