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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  February 2006, Week 4

CONLANG February 2006, Week 4

Subject:

Re: YAEPT: apparently bizarre 'A's (was Re: YEAPT: f/T (was Re: Other Vulgar Lat

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:23:53 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (57 lines)

caeruleancentaur wrote:
[snip]
> 
> If my [r] is /3/, 

Haven't you got [] and / / the wrong way round?
doesn't that make me a rhotic American?

Not if your postvocalc /r/ is really [3], it doesn't, because [3] is not 
a rhotic sound. It is low-mid central unrounded vowel, with no r-coloring.

> My [r] is 
> still there. I am under the impression that non-rhotic means no 
> sound where there is an [r], as in /hA:t/.  If the pronunciation 
> is /hA:rt/ or /hA:3t/ or /hA:4t/ or even /hA:Rt/, then the speaker 
> is rhotic.

[hArt], [hA4t] and [hARt] are indeed rhotic, as is [hA`] or [hA:`t], 
with r-colored vowel.

But [A3] is surely a diphthong, beginning with a low back unrounded 
vowel moving towards the mid-low central position. [A:3] is the same 
diphthong with onset vowel being held longer (a "long diphthong").

> I realize, in investigating this, that I don't see a difference 
> between /r/ and /3/.  

[r] is strictly a trill made with the tip of the tongue, as in Italian. 
[3] is a vowel with no trilling of the tongue.

> Do I assume correctly that /r/ is consonantal 
> <red> and /3/ is vocalic <nurse>.

Phonologically both can vowels, but only [r] can be a consonant also - 
it depends upon the phonology of a given language. But [3] is the sound 
in the *non-rhotic* 'nurse' of us southern Britons. Most (all?) Merkans 
give it an r-coloring of some sort. (I was going to suggest [n3`s] - but 
I'm possibly wrong. I leave that Merkans on this list   :)

> And I've long wondered how [r] has come to be the grapheme for such 
> variant phonemes as /r(or 4)/, /3/, /r\/, and /R/.

..and some others as well. It's to do with the way the sound has 
developed over time within related languages.

BTW you seem to have interchanged [ ] and / / throughout. The square 
brackets [] denote _phonetic_ values; these are not language dependent. 
the slashes denote phonemes of a given language.

-- 
Ray
==================================
[log in to unmask]
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
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