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CONLANG  February 2006, Week 4

CONLANG February 2006, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Phonetics vs. Phonemics (was: apparently bizarre 'A's)

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 26 Feb 2006 17:45:24 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (73 lines)

Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
[snip]

> R A Brown skrev:
> 
>>>> But your scheme is doomed to failure on both sides of the Pond with all
>>>> those 'furrin' diacritics!
> 
> 
> What ìs it with anglophones that they have diacritophobia?

You're generalizing.

[snip]

> In fact English and Latin are the only languages written in
> the Roman alphabet that don't use diacritics, 

This simply is not true. AFAIK Swahili, Xhosa, Zulu and a whole lot of
other languages do not use diacritics with their Roman alphabet
orthographies.

> Roman alphabet.  Think of it, Ray: what would you think of
> Greek or Welsh, or French, without diacritics?

Greek does not use the Roman alphabet! Also of course the ancient
Greeks _did_ write without using any diacritics.

The breathings, accents and other diacritics were the invention of 
Alexandrian grammarians of the Hellenistic period and were intended to 
help non-Greek speakers pronounce the language properly (much as acutes 
are used in Russian texts for learners). The Modern Greeks have 
dispensed with all except the acute.

But I never said that *I* was adverse to diacritics - merely making the
observation that their use would simply not catch on in the anglophone
world. Newspapers never print the things on foreign words or names;
they are happy to write 'facade' even tho it's pronounced [log in to unmask]

I'm merely stating what is a fact - whether you or I like it is 
irrelevant. Spelling reforms have been proposed at least since the 19th 
century - there's no shortage of proposals. But none have been 
successful so far; but IME adding diacritics to such a proposed reform 
will only make it more certain it is ignored.

I don't think there's any _phobia_ about the use of diacritics. Ignoring 
them is due to laziness or indifference (depending upon your point of 
view).

[snip]
>>> Yeah, diacritics are a no-no.  But what got me was the odd choice of
>>> digraph in the basic Roman version of ʒ - cg?  gj?
>>
>> Yes - 'cg' denoted a sound similar to [dZ] in Old English IIRC and 
>> 'gj' would suggest something similar to me also.
>  
> In fact my ʒ - cg  gj *does* denote /dZ/ and not /Z/.  

Right - but re-introducing _cg_ from Old English, I think, is not the 
best idea. Very few users of modern English have any idea about the 
spelling conventions of Old English. _gj_ might work - in fact I have 
used it in reform schemes of my own - but writing 'judge' as _gjygj_ 
seems a tad untidy   ;)


-- 
Ray
==================================
[log in to unmask]
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
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