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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  March 2006, Week 3

CONLANG March 2006, Week 3

Subject:

Re: NATLANG: Gaidhlig volunteer needed

From:

"Mark J. Reed" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 21 Mar 2006 22:32:34 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (61 lines)

On 3/21/06, Tristan Alexander McLeay <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> If it was me, I'd put the aspiration last: Aspiration is defined as
> delayed onset of voicing, so that the important part of the aspiration
> of  t_j_h will occur after the palatised stop has been released. I'm
> surprised you say the aspiration occurs before any audible palatised
> sound does---but maybe you're thinking of the voicelessness?

No, I was thinking that the palatalization of a palatalized stop is
mostly audible in the onset of the following vowel, which comes after
the aspiration.

> When a sound is velarised, it basically has a [M] (open back unrounded
> vowel)

Don't you mean "close back unrounded vowel"?  [M] is unrounded [u],
right?  That's as close as it gets.

> superimposed, much like a labio-velarised sound has a [u]
> superimposed, or a palatised sound has a [i] superimposed

I hadn't thought of those that way, but in terms of [w] and [j].  The
vowels do make sense, though, and that helps a lot.  Thanks!

> Perhaps you or people around you sometimes vocalise your/their /l/'s:
> if so, you'll notice you get a sound somewhat like /o/ or /u/, but
> (frequently) without the labialisation.

[l=] still sounds pretty distinct from [7] or [M], but I guess there's
a similarity there.


 > Anyway, so what I'm saying is the back of your tongue will be in a
> similar position as it is for a [u] (a cardinal one---many English
> dialects have a somewhat/rather/very fronted /u:/), but without the
> lip-rounding.

Yeah, I have no trouble pronouncing [M] and [7].  ([M] is the Japanese
/u/, in particular.  Also where I get to practice my [P]s..)


> (Note that English /l/ are (velarised) alveolar lateral approximates,
> not dental ones.)

Yeah, point.  Technically the bit I read about English not having the
dental version is correct, but still misleading.  Do any languages
have a phonemic distinction between dental and alveolar or
postalveolar POA outside of the fricative series?

 > Also, [l_e] could represent a pharyngealised [l] (used frex in the
> Arabic pronunciation of the word "Allah"); if the difference is
> relevant, you can spell it as [l_G], which is in IPA a superscripted
> gamma. It also looks nicer than an overlaid tilde.

[G] is one place I prefer the CXS to real IPA.  The IPA versions of
[7] and [G] are far too similar for my taste, especially in
handwritten notes.

Thanks for the help!
--
Mark J. Reed <[log in to unmask]>

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