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CONLANG  July 2006, Week 5

CONLANG July 2006, Week 5

Subject:

Re: USAGE: What gender is _Wikipedia_ in German?

From:

Benct Philip Jonsson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 31 Jul 2006 12:22:55 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (121 lines)

Kalle Bergman skrev:
>>What gender is _Wikipedia_ in German?
> 
> 
> Okay, not an answer to your question, and tangential
> to the subject, but... what gender is "wikipedia" in
> swedish? "En wikipedia", "ett wikipedia"... it's
> neither, right, because "wikipedia" is a proper name?
> 

I definitely agree with you and Andreas that _Wikipedia_
is a proper name in Swedish.  It probably is in German
too, but IIANM proper names can have any gender in German,
and (of this I'm sure) you *need* to know what gender a
name has in order to choose the right anaphoric forms
when referring to it.

> (Begin rant)
> 
> Makes me think of my dad's dialect, which has a
> special set of clitics used with names of people, when
> those names are used to refer to a person by that
> name. (So, for instance, you use the clitic when
> saying things like "I met Ove yesterday", but not when
> saying "His name is Ove", because in the latter case,
> "Ove" refers to the name itself, rather than to
> someone called "Ove"). The clitics were en-/n- in the
> case of men, and a- in the case of women, so you got
> things like:
> 
> Jag sg n'Ove
> I saw Ove
> 
> And
> 
> Jag sg a'Karin
> I saw Karin
> 
> I think it's an interesting feature.

It is.  These forms come from the old pronoun
_hinn (m), hin (f), hitt (n)_ which basically
meant (and still means in Icelandic, Faroese
and Norwegian) roughly the same as, and is
cognate to, German _jener_, i.e. basically
'the other one', but could also be used as
a demonstrative and relative pronoun: as you
perhaps know the Scandinavian postposed definite
article also derives from _hinn_ used enclitically,
and its forms were often written without _h-_
in Old Norse.  In the function you describe they
were preposed to a person's name when referring to
that person -- much as the definite article can be in
German and always is in Greek -- and again with
great phonetic attrition due to being clitic.
I wonder if the feminine form _a_ comes from
the accusative singular feminine _hina_ or
from the nominative _hin_ with a soundchange
_in > i~ > E~ > a~_.  The fact that many
Scandinavian dialects have enclitic object
pronun forms _'en (m), 'na (f), -et (n)_
(among them *my* dad's dialect! :-) talks
for the accusative origin, but the fact that
the feminine singular and neuter plural
article both develop into _-a < -in_ speaks
for the nasalization and lowering of _hin_
hypothesis.

BTW my dad used to joke about the Vestrogothian
and Bahusian translation of the German paradigm
_sie, ihrer, ihr, sie_ which went _hu, henneres,
tna, hu_ -- note how the nominative stands in
for the old accusative when stressed: the _-na_
form -- in this case deriving from the accusative
_hana_ of the personal pronoun _hun/hon_ wasn't
stressable!  Also note the absence of a reflex of
the old dative _henni_ which has given the obliq1ue
case in standard Swedish!

> /Kalle B
> 
> --- Benct Philip Jonsson <[log in to unmask]> skrev:
> 
> 
>>Well, the subject line says it all:
>>What gender is _Wikipedia_ in German?
>>Sure _paida_ is feminine in Greek, but
>>one can never be sure.  It might even be
>>neuter plural! ;-)
>>-- 
>>
>>/BP 8^)>
>>--
>>Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se
>>
>>         Solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant!
>>                                            
>>(Tacitus)
>>
>>I'm afraid the current situation in the Eastern
>>Mediterranean forces me to reinstate this
>>signature...
>>
> 
> 
> 
> 


-- 

/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se

         Solitudinem faciunt pacem appellant!
                                             (Tacitus)

I'm afraid the current situation in the Eastern
Mediterranean forces me to reinstate this signature...

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