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CONLANG  August 2006, Week 1

CONLANG August 2006, Week 1

Subject:

FW: 'Nor' in the World's Languages

From:

Yahya Abdal-Aziz <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Sun, 6 Aug 2006 16:36:50 +1000

Content-Type:

text/plain

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Parts/Attachments

text/plain (189 lines)

Hi all,

I'm forwarding a (rather long) reply I recently made to Maarten van Wijk about a question he raised on the Linguist list.  My main question to you all is:

In your conlangs, what kinds of logical connectives have you implemented?
Examples would be:  
1. A and B - AND
2. A or B or both (A and B) - the "inclusive or", OR
3. A or B but not both (A and B) - the "exclusive or", XOR
4. If A, then B - "A implies B"
5. A only if B - "A is implied by B"
6. A if and only if B  - "A and  B imply each other", "A and  B are equivalent"
7. not A - ie the statement A is not true - cf Malay "tidak" for logical negation, below
8. M is not a N - ie the thing M is not one of the things N - cf Malay "bukan" for categorical negation, below
9. neither A nor B - ie not A and not B

A secondary question is, if you wish to comment, how strictly do they match the logician's view of those connectives?

Regards, 
Yahya


-----Original Message-----
From: Yahya Abdal-Aziz 
Sent: Monday 10 July 2006 22:41 pm
To: Maarten van Wijk
Subject: 'Nor' in the World's Languages 

Hi Maarten,

On the Linguist list, you recently wrote:
---
For my dissertation on the emergence of logical connectives in natural language
I'm trying to debunk an argument by Gazdar and Pullum (1976) on what they call
non-confessionality, which is supposed to be principle that rules out nand, but
also nor as a natural language truth-functional connective.

The basic argument runs as follows:

There is psycholinguistic evidence that negations are hard to compute for human
minds, and computation time increases exponentially for each extra negative
element added (Hoosain 1973; Clark 1974, both cited by Gazdar and Pullum 1976).
Therefore there can be no connective C that causes the truth value of a
proposition conjoined by C to be true when both of the arguments of C are false.
This is supposed to explain why NAND, IFF and IF are not natural language
connectives. After all, A if B is true if neither A nor B is true.

However, NOR would be non-confessional as well, and still it is found in many
natural languages.

Gazdar and Pullum acknowledge the existence of neither...nor in modern English,
but they accommodate this by proposing that neither...nor is derived
syntactically from either...or by incorporation of NEG. Such syntactic claims
have been made. (I don't have the citations handy).

This seems like a bit of an argument out of convenience to me. I can see that
English nor certainly gives the impression of being composed out of not and or.
I'm wondering whether this is true in other languages of the world as well,
though....

Does anyone know of any language in which the word for NOR doesn't look at all
like the particle for negation? And what is your general take on the
'incorporation of negation' argument? How seriously should I take this
generativistic argument? I myself work in an evolutionary linguistics framework. 
---

I don't know whether the following will help you or 
not.

_1)  Malay certainly uses a standard "logical" negation
"tidak" for a "logical" /neither ... nor .../ construction.

Malay uses a phrase : "juga tidak", literally "also not"
eg "I neither knew nor wanted that" would be
"sahaya tidak tahu juga tidak mahu itu", literally
"I not know also not want that".

This form, using "juga", differentiates it from an implicit 
conditional structure, such as the following proverb:
eg "[If you] don't know, [you] don't want" would be
"tidak tahu, tidak mahu", literally
"not know, not want".

_2) There is also a separate word in Malay for "categorical" 
negation: "bukan", which you would need to use for a 
"categorical"  /neither ... nor .../ construction.

eg "Neither fish nor fowl" would be
"Bukan ikan juga bukan ayam [pula]", literally
"Not-fish also not-fowl [again/likewise/furthermore]".

This shows that a language with two kinds of negation
may require or allow two kinds of /neither ... nor .../. ;-)

_3)  This little logical digression is not directly apropos your 
question.  But I wonder whether we may be hasty in so readily
equating the logical operations of natural language with those 
of formal logic, binary mathematics or computers.  I invite you
to consider my arguments below, and make of them what you 
will ...

It's a truism that language is not logic.  So it should be 
no surprise that some natural language constructions, which
use words we have adopted as models of logical operations,
such as "if", "not" and "and", are not strictly logical in using
those very same words.  And any attempt in everyday speech
to use those words very precisely is usually derided as 
pedantry, or just "being smart".  You know all this, I'm sure!

But this is why I take issue with the analysis we so often 
make of the logic of "IF".  In a binary-valued logic calculus,
we demand that each operation on propositions produce a
binary-valued result.  (This I call the Aristotelian error.) 
Therefore we say something like: 
"Well, if neither A nor B is true, we still need a binary value 
for the proposition 'if A then B'.  Which value can we assign
it?"

And so we decide, that for consistency in our binary world,
we will *choose* to say that 'if A then B' is true in that case.

But this is not what happens in the real world of everyday 
language use!  We say instead "We don't know".  (Always 
assuming we don't go round making rash assumptions ...)
At least, if we are being reasonable, skeptical empiricists,
we do.  This particular case simply doesn't add any evidence 
to the proposition "if A then B".  I can diagram this with 
truth tables:

______Case	| 1 2 3 4
----------------|---------
________A	| T T F F
________B	| T F T F
___~(A&~B)	| T F T T
_____(A=>B)	| T F T T
__if A then B	| T F ? ?

The logical operator => (implies) is usually *defined* to be 
the equivalent of not both A and not B.  This appears as row 
three of the table, ~(A&~B).  Its truth value is well defined 
in each of the four cases 1, 2, 3 and 4.  So the truth values 
of => are also all well defined; its truth table is full and it is 
a well defined operator.

But, taking a commonsense evidentiary approach, only cases 
1 and 2 provide us with evidence for the truth or falsity of 
'if A then B'.  Case 1 provides positive evidence; case 2 
provides negative evidence.  But any case, such as 3 or 4, in 
which the antecedent A is false gives us *no* evidence for
the truth of the implication when the antecedent is true.

Two farmers are looking at a pig.

Brown: "Look at my duck!"
Green: "That's no duck, it's a pig!"
Brown: "It flew around the barnyard this morning.  If it
flies, it's a duck.  You wouldn't call it a chicken, would 
you?"
Green: "Flew, you said?  It's not flying now, is it?  Yes,
it might be a chicken at that.  I've never seen it fly.  Until 
I see it fly, you can't tell me it's a duck."

You don't even need a *good* implication to see that the
absence of evidence does not support the implication.
Mind you, I'm not saying that absence of evidence is 
evidence of absence ...

---

Good luck with your dissertation!  If you ever do find a 
convincing reason why we don't have NAND in natural 
English, I'd love to know!

Regards, 
Yahya

------------------------------------------------ 
      Yahya Abdal-Aziz 
      Melbourne PC User Group 
      Convener, Graphics Interest Group 
      Convener, Music Interest Group 
------------------------------------------------ 

-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.10.7/409 - Release Date: 4/8/06
 

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August 2006, Week 3
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August 2006, Week 1
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June 2006, Week 5
June 2006, Week 4
June 2006, Week 3
June 2006, Week 2
June 2006, Week 1
May 2006, Week 5
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May 2006, Week 3
May 2006, Week 2
May 2006, Week 1
April 2006, Week 5
April 2006, Week 4
April 2006, Week 3
April 2006, Week 2
April 2006, Week 1
March 2006, Week 5
March 2006, Week 4
March 2006, Week 3
March 2006, Week 2
March 2006, Week 1
February 2006, Week 4
February 2006, Week 3
February 2006, Week 2
February 2006, Week 1
January 2006, Week 5
January 2006, Week 4
January 2006, Week 3
January 2006, Week 2
January 2006, Week 1
December 2005, Week 5
December 2005, Week 4
December 2005, Week 3
December 2005, Week 2
December 2005, Week 1
November 2005, Week 5
November 2005, Week 4
November 2005, Week 3
November 2005, Week 2
November 2005, Week 1
October 2005, Week 5
October 2005, Week 4
October 2005, Week 3
October 2005, Week 2
October 2005, Week 1
September 2005, Week 5
September 2005, Week 4
September 2005, Week 3
September 2005, Week 2
September 2005, Week 1
August 2005, Week 5
August 2005, Week 4
August 2005, Week 3
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August 2005, Week 1
July 2005, Week 5
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July 2005, Week 3
July 2005, Week 2
July 2005, Week 1
June 2005, Week 5
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May 2005, Week 1
April 2005, Week 5
April 2005, Week 4
April 2005, Week 3
April 2005, Week 2
April 2005, Week 1
March 2005, Week 5
March 2005, Week 4
March 2005, Week 3
March 2005, Week 2
March 2005, Week 1
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February 2005, Week 1
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January 2005, Week 4
January 2005, Week 3
January 2005, Week 2
January 2005, Week 1
December 2004, Week 5
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December 2004, Week 3
December 2004, Week 2
December 2004, Week 1
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November 2004, Week 4
November 2004, Week 3
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November 2004, Week 1
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October 2004, Week 1
September 2004, Week 5
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September 2004, Week 1
August 2004, Week 5
August 2004, Week 4
August 2004, Week 3
August 2004, Week 2
August 2004, Week 1
July 2004, Week 5
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July 2004, Week 3
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July 2004, Week 1
June 2004, Week 5
June 2004, Week 4
June 2004, Week 3
June 2004, Week 2
June 2004, Week 1
May 2004, Week 5
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May 2004, Week 3
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May 2004, Week 1
April 2004, Week 5
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April 2004, Week 3
April 2004, Week 2
April 2004, Week 1
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March 2004, Week 3
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November 2003, Week 3
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October 2003, Week 3
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September 2003, Week 1
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August 2003, Week 3
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August 2003, Week 1
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July 2003, Week 3
July 2003, Week 2
July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
June 2003, Week 4
June 2003, Week 3
June 2003, Week 2
June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
May 2003, Week 4
May 2003, Week 3
May 2003, Week 2
May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
April 2003, Week 1
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
March 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
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December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 5
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
July 2002, Week 5
July 2002, Week 4
July 2002, Week 3
July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
June 2002, Week 4
June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
May 2002, Week 5
May 2002, Week 4
May 2002, Week 3
May 2002, Week 2
May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
March 2002, Week 5
March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 2
March 2002, Week 1
February 2002, Week 4
February 2002, Week 3
February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
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November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
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October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
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September 2001, Week 1
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May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
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April 2001, Week 3
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February 2000, Week 3
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February 2000, Week 1
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January 2000, Week 4
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January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
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December 1999, Week 1
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November 1999, Week 3
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June 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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