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CONLANG  August 2006, Week 1

CONLANG August 2006, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Delexicalization of left & right

From:

John Vertical <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 1 Aug 2006 13:30:49 +0300

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (88 lines)

Ash Wells wrote:
>
>Interesting concept!
>   What about 'thing/one' - when you're describing a non-specific item, or 
>differentiating 2 objects out of
>a pair.
>   e.g.
>   'Which one would you like?'  'The one on the left'.

I was thinking deriving this meaning from the hand names, i.e. "The one on 
the left hand side".


Roger Mills wrote:
>
>Armt Richard Johansen wrote:
> > First, a question: how about cardinal directions? (North, south, east,
> > west.) Surely, these concepts must be important to hunter-gatherer
> > societies.
>
>Some languages use derivs. of "toward the mountains/toward the sea", 
>up/down etc. but of course that depends on the local geography and one's 
>orientation in it...

Yes, naturally there will be absolute directions too. Since the climatic 
setting in question is subtropical / tropical, terms referring to local 
geography might be more important than the cardinal directions. (Those 
aren't anyway always as stable as you IE people might think; none of the 8 
cardinal direction terms in Finnish date older than Proto-Fennic - ie. 2-3K 
years of age.)


> > could of course go with left/right version of every body part that comes
> > in pairs, but it gets kinda implausible for the language to have that 
>kind
> > of fine-grainedness, yet still have no words for left and right.
>
>I think so too.

Which is exactly why I settled for so few root-pairs. The four eye / hand 
names will definitely be fully independant words; either or both of the foot 
names I suppose could be nigh-ancient derivations from the hand names... 
which will probably in turn come from "strong" and "weak" or sumthing 
similar.


> > Other suggestions:
> >
> > - port/starboard
> > - clockwise/counterclockwise
> > - right-handed/left-handed helicity
>
>IIRC from what John V. said about his people, they may not have that level 
>of technological thought....?

Helicity is definitly too advanced a concept. Clockwise/counterclockwise 
will be trivial to derive from the verbs "to turn left / counterclockwise" & 
"to turn right / clockwise"; and the riverbank names & the absolute 
directions upstream/downstream will probably be used instead of 
port/starboard, as the culture won't be seafaring (much, at least)


> > Also, the lexical items for Right Eye and Left Eye might over time 
>undergo
> > semantic drift, so that they end up actually meaning right and left. 
>This
> > would especially be the case if they can be combined with the words for
> > specific body parts that come in left-right pairs.

Wouldn't the fact that there's two or three such combining root-pairs hinder 
development of full abstraction? At least as long as the culture stays on 
the same development level (small indigenous SE-Asian or sub-Saharan African 
people could be a good comparision)

Also, as far as semantic drift goes, I'm thinking of taking the eye names 
originally from mythology... maybe relating to stellar bodies. Ooh, and new 
idea - ritual eyepatches during eclipses! /,-)


>Whether the cultural concept _right: good vs. left: bad, taboo_ is really 
>ancient is an interesting question.

Well, with handedness, right=strong, left=weak is rather trivial; the more 
symbolic meaning is not exactly lightyears apart, altho I wouldn't expect 
every culture to have developed / adopted it.

John Vertical

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