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CONLANG  September 2006, Week 3

CONLANG September 2006, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Werewolf

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 18 Sep 2006 18:50:55 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (89 lines)

Chris Bates wrote:
>> Yep - even the versions I gave with 'wolf' first support the point 
>> that 'wolf' is the head of the phrase and the 'man/human' word is the 
>> attribute. It does seem that people regarded these creatures as 
>> essentially wolves trapped for the most part in humanoid form, rather 
>> than humans who occasionally got transmogrified into wolves.
> 
[snip]
> I would argue that in English, semantically at least, a werewolf is seen 
> as a man who turns into a wolf, and not as a wolf who turns into a man.

That's because you're loving in the 21st century. Clearly to our Saxon 
forebears it was a 'man-wolf'. I was trying to make sense out of 
compounds formed many centuries ago when people took such creatures more 
seriously.

But without a detailed research it is surely not possible to say how 
peoples a millennium ago and two millennia ago regarded such creatures.
==================================
> Den 18. sep. 2006 kl. 16.07 skrev Chris Bates:
> 
>> I would argue that in English, semantically at least, a werewolf is  seen as a man who turns into a wolf, and not as a wolf who turns  into a man.
> 
> 
> Perhaps he reveals his true nature when he turns into a wolf(?)

Quite so. If one believes in such creatures, this would seem to me a 
perfectly natural way to think.
===================================

> 2006/9/16, R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>:
[snip]
>> > But if it is used in Vulgar Latin,
>>
>> It wasn't - you're compound is likely, given the scenario of your language.
> 
> 
> Might LUPONE be a possible formation?  

?Vulgar Latin *lupone would presumably mean "wolflet', methinks.

> I guess one might get
> _lobķu_ from LUPU HOMO in R3, but how realistic would *that* be?

One could imagine *luphomo (gen. *luphominis) - where |ph| = [p_h] - 
being formed as a calque of the Greek 'lykanthropos'. This would have 
given a Vulgar Latin *lupOmne

[snip]
> assuming HOMINE > *omne > *omme > /uom/, provided that
> M'N > mm *is* a realistic change for a Romance language

It happened in Old French, i.e. (h)omme = 'man'

> -- I want it to be but I'm not so sure!  What's the track by which
> HOMINE became _homme_ but HOMO became _on_ in French?

The nom. (h)Omo --> /Om/ --> /0~/. The later was spelled _(h)om_ in Old 
French. But the sound /O~/ could equally well be spelled *(h)on, and 
when it became dissociated from _(h)omme_ and took on a new role as a 
pronoun, the simple spelling _on_ was adopted. *There never was a change 
/m/ --> /n/*

> And what's the story behind DOMINU > _Dom_ as an ecclesiatical
> appellative (if that is the right word?)

Used AFAIK principally by the Benedictine order.

>  I'm not even sure in what language DOMINU > _Dom_ might have happened!  

Portuguese.

AFAIK the
> regular outcome is _don_ in both Spanish and Italian, with
> _doņa/donna_ < DOMINA.  Is _Dom_ archaic French?

Nope - it's Portuguese, see above. Why the Benedictines should have 
adopted this form when other took the Spanish/Italian 'Don' I know not.

-- 
Ray
==================================
[log in to unmask]
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB}

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