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CONLANG  September 2006, Week 3

CONLANG September 2006, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Dominus (Was: Re: Werewolf)

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 19 Sep 2006 08:39:06 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (65 lines)

Paul Bennett wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> 
>>From: caeruleancentaur <[log in to unmask]>
>>Sent: Sep 18, 2006 2:42 PM
>>
>>It would not surprise me to learn that "domnisoara" was cognate 
>>to "demoiselle." Rumanian has other l > r words.

Yep - but cognate only in so far as both are, I think, derived from 
diminutives of Latin _domna_ (forms without medial -i- were occasionally 
found even in the Classical period).

VL /E/ does not become become /oa/ in Romanian, nor did intervocalic 
/ll/ become /r/, only intervocalic /l/. The ending -oara suggests to me 
a form derived from the familiar Latin diminutive ending -ula. I would 
tentatively suggest *domniciula, but did medial -ci- before a vowel 
become |ş| /S/ in Romanian??

French _demoiselle_ is from a Latin *domnicella. French also has the 
masculine equivalent _damoiseau_ <-- *domnicellu(m); it now has a 
pejorative meaning of "fop, dandy".

In Old French both words were applied to people of noble birth, the 
masculine being applied to young men of noble birth & the feminine to 
any lady, whether married or not, of noble birth. The modern uses are 
later developments.

>>durere, ache < Latin dolor.
>>singur, alone < singulus.
>>mar, apple < malus.
>>par, hair < pelis
>>etc.
>  
> There are lots of apparently nonsensical[*] sound changes and alternations all over PIE,

I do not see anything nonsensical about medial [r] becoming [l]. It is 
AFAIK not an uncommon change, nor is it confined to IE langs.

[snip]
> [*]By which I mean more or less regular, but not easily understood without resorting to the "if /ni/ can become /a/" defense, which verges on the Chewbaccan. 

But the point is that the change from archaic Chinese /ni/ to the modern 
Yangchow dialect /A/ was effected by a series of *regular* (not more or 
less, but precisely regular) sound changes. As Y.R. Chao pointed out 
(and I quote) "all the steps being reflected in other parallel changes, 
geographical as well as historical."

The point is that one cannot arbitrarily rule out a change of one set of 
sounds into another, without knowing the diachronic development of 
sounds in the related languages; I see nothing Chewbaccan in this. Thus, 
one cannot arbitrarily rule out the possibility that Latin -icella 
became -isoara in Romanian; one has to know how sounds developed from VL 
to modern Romanian.

-- 
Ray
==================================
[log in to unmask]
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB}

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