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CONLANG  October 2006, Week 1

CONLANG October 2006, Week 1

Subject:

Some singular plurals (was: Creating conlang grammars using prototypes)

From:

R A Brown <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 6 Oct 2006 09:11:15 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (87 lines)

Ph.D. wrote:
> R A Brown wrote:
[snip]
>>True - which is why I say "octopuses" as that what 
>>others generally say in this neck of the woods.  
>>FWIW, my dictionary gives as plural:
>>{quote}
>>*octopuses*, (_arch._) *octopodes* (*octopi* is wrong)
>>(/quote}
> 
> Octopuses and Octopi are both rather common in
> the United States. In fact this is the first time that I've 
> heard Octopi to be wrong. FWIW, the American 
> Heritage College Dictionary, Third Edition 1993, gives
> 
> octopus n., pl. -puses or -pi.  [NLat. octopus < Gk. 
> oktopous, eight-footed]

The dictionaries are clearly reflecting the situation in the respective 
countries.

I note the etymology given is _NLat._, presumably 'New Latin'. The word 
is indeed not attested in Classical Latin. If the word had been a 
learned borrowing in classical period from Greek it would undoubtedly 
have been _octopus_ /okto:pu:s/ with plural _octpodes_ /okto:podes/ [sic 
- with short _e_], following the Greek pattern.

There is in Classical Latin, it is true, _polypus_ with short _u_ which 
follows the 2nd declension and, therefore, has plural _polypi_ (it seems 
to refer indifferently to octopuses & cuttlefish). But although this is 
clearly connected with Classical Greek _polypous_ (many-footed), it is 
an early colloquial borrowing from the Doric Greek of southern Italy 
where the word was _polupos_.

The actual spelling in Latin with _y_ is due, obviously, to Greek 
influence; it would have been some sort of schwa sound. The modern 
Italian, Spanish & Portuguese words for 'octopus' (polpo, pulpo, polvo) 
indicate the common pronunciation was *polpus.

But these Latinate plurals (whether etymologically justified or not) 
seem to get varying pronunciations in the spoken language. When I was a 
youngster 'fungi', when used, was ['fVndZaj], but most people then said 
'funguses' or 'toadstools'  :)

But now practically everyman and his dog says 'fungi', but they don't 
all say it the same way. I hear ['fVndZaj] (not so often now), ['fVNgaj] 
(second most common), ['fVNgi] (the most common] and ['fVndZi] (probably 
least common). None, of course, like Latin, whether Classical ['fUNgi:] 
or ecclesiastical ['fundZi]    :)

But heck - what's wrong with the 'funguses' of my youth?
=============================================

David J. Peterson wrote:
[snip]
 > Ray Brown wrote:
 > (I assume people who say 'octopi' don't all say 'bi' as the plural of
 > 'bus'   :)
 >  >>
 >
 > Uh...they don't?  What else would they say?  Is there another
 > plural for "bus" I'm not aware of...?

'Bus' is monosyllabic. Everyone knows monosyllabic words have umlauted 
plurals, don't they?    :)

man ~ men
goose ~ geese
tooth ~ teeth
mouse ~ mice
house ~ hice
moth ~ myth
etc.

So:
bus ~ bys

-- 
Ray
==================================
[log in to unmask]
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB}

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