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AUXLANG  October 2006, Week 3

AUXLANG October 2006, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Dealbreakers between Espo and Ido

From:

MacLeod Dave <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:42:09 +0900

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (86 lines)

That's a really good answer, thanks.

2006/10/19, Steve Rice <[log in to unmask]>:
> Understood. But if you were scared away by the possibility that some Eo
> names might perhaps be crossdressers, my experiences with Ido might
> interest you.
>
> I really got into auxlangs in high school. I turned up the address for the
> International Language (Ido) Society of Great Britain and sent off for _Ido
> for All_. I had a basic knowledge of Eo at this point, and of course I knew
> what was wrong with it and how to correct it.
>
> The main thing I liked about Ido was the orthography. It did look better
> than Eo's, and it was good to have "linguo" instead of "lingvo." I also
> thought the optional accusative was a good idea. However...
>
> The accent rules were rather involved, and I found myself asking why
> improved, simplified Eo was actually more complicated in this area at
> least. And what's with the claim that you have to have final accent for
> infinitives? If that's a problem, it's probably a general problem. Why not
> accent the endings in general? (Hogben pointed this out in _Interglossa_.)
>
> On the topic of infinitives, why are they tensed? Eo doesn't do that
> anymore than most modern languages. At that time I knew of tensed
> infintives from Latin and Volapük (and more vaguely from Greek), but it
> seemed like the sort of quirk a defunct language would have, not a modern
> one.
>
> Then there were the pronouns. Ilu, elu, and olu may drop the -u, but you
> have to put it back for the possessives (ilua, elua, olua). Why keep
> dropping things (cf also es[as])? Again, Eo seemed simpler.
>
> But what really did me in was the volitive: "Lernez Ido!" was (barely)
> tolerable, but "Ni lernez Ido!" cracked me up. I wasn't sure whether the
> language was designed by Clouseau or Pépé Le Pew (probably the latter), but
> I just couldn't take it seriously anymore. For me, this was the fatal flaw:
> I can read and write Ido, but I don't think I could speak it without a bag
> over my head.
>
> During the 80s I referred to my Ido book on occasion, but I didn't try to
> learn it again. I picked up some interesting ideas from Jespersen, though,
> so when Ido showed up online in the late 90s, I thought I'd try it again.
> (Sucker!)
>
> Okay, -ez was still there, but even ignoring it, there were other issues.
> The affixes were real affixes, for example, not independent words as in Eo.
> I now recognized this as a design flaw: it reduces flexibility and
> learnability. The tidy predictability of Eo correlatives was replaced by a
> chaotic system only slightly easier than a natlang's.
>
> There were good points too: the phonology appealed to me more than Eo's,
> though I was annoyed by certain orthographic features, such as the fact
> that des+honoro is usually written (but not pronounced) "deshonoro,"
> despite the use of sh for [S]. The vocabulary is generally better, though
> not always: dubit- is no improvement over dub- (dubitita, anyone?), and
> pairs such as justa/yusta are clumsy attempts to achieve the doubling
> effect Eo's supersigns give it. Discard "yusta" and find another form.
>
> It isn't possible to pluralize adjectives in Ido, a mistake IMO. And we
> have the plural article "le" (which Jespersen accurately called an "unlucky
> device" in _An International Language_). Lu has its points, but its grammar
> is confusing--which actually is fitting.
>
> You see, what bothered me this time (Ni ne obliviez -ez!) was the obsession
> with complexity and fiddly precision. Renversebleso is simply unnatural,
> and it requires too much of producer and consumer alike. I found the
> derivational system needlessly baroque and labyrinthine (confirming another
> criticism by Jespersen), and I didn't get the hang of it for quite a while,
> whereas I never had any trouble with Eo's. The lexicon is pointlessly
> large, because they have a word for everything, and you'd better know which
> one to use! It impresses me, in short, as a language for pedants and
> pettifoggers, and even they don't get it right a fair amount of the time. I
> keep wondering why so few Idists have bothered to read the KGD--but then,
> having read it, perhaps I know why. At least _Lingvaj Respondoj_ has some
> actual humanity and wit.
>
> Anyway, I've managed to learn Ido well enough to write it accurately, even
> though I still don't think I could speak it without doing a Clouseau
> accent. And for what it's worth, I would even recommend it as an auxlang
> worth studying, if not speaking. It's good discipline, and it is an
> education. My brother used to say that people learn Pascal but actually
> program in C. If that's true, I can accept Ido as the Pascal of auxlangs.
>
> Steve
>

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