LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for CONLANG Archives


CONLANG Archives

CONLANG Archives


CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  November 2006, Week 4

CONLANG November 2006, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Help on Sound Changes

From:

Benct Philip Jonsson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:47:03 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (116 lines)

Santiago Matķas Feldman skrev:
> Hi!
>
> I need some advice on my sound changes from Latin into my
> Romlang "Laturslav".
>
> In the inventory of phonemes, I decided to include the
> fricatives /S/, /Z/ and the affricates /tS/ and /ts/. No
> /dZ/ there.
>
> So, I chose a usual sound change in Romanian (I think) and
> in many Slavic languages: /t/ ---> /ts/ before /j/, and
> /k/ ----> /ts/ before 'e' and 'i':
>
> informatio ---> informacya (where c is /ts/) caelum ---->
> cel (idem)
>
> But then, I discovered that if I applied those sound
> changes, Laturslav would be full of /ts/'s and I don't
> want that to happen. Therefore, I decided to replace those
> sound changes with these:
>
> /t/ ---> /s/ /k/ ---> /s/ (this is like in my native
> dialect of Spanish)
>
> But I found that that would mean the absence of /ts/, and
> I don't want that either.
>
> So, the question is, how can I manage to keep /ts/ present
> in the language to a minimum, while at the same time
> applying the changes of /t/ and /k/ to /s/?
>
> That is, where can /ts/ derive from?


Obviously on the Italian/Rumanian model: (I'm using the
Romanicist convention of writing Vulgar Latin sounds and
words with capital letters, and C', G' are these letters
before J, E, I (or Y))

  * C > /tS/
  * G > /dZ/
  * SC > /S/
  * J- > /dZ/ at the beginning of words (i.e. written Latin I
    E before vowels at the beginning of words.)

French has C > /tS/ > /S/ and G > /dZ/ > /Z/ before A as
well, regardless whether A itself becomes /E/ or not.

  * TJ > /ts/

(i.e. written Latin TI/TE/TY before vowels)

  * DJ > /dz/

(i.e. written Latin DI/DE/DY before vowels, not a very
frequent combination, and often becoming /dZ/ even in
Italian -- there was probably a sociolectal difference in
Vulgar Latin!)

The endings -ATICUM etc. would also be expected to end up
with /tS/ or /dZ/ cf. VIATICUM > Fr. _voyage_, Provenēal
_viatge_. (It. _viaggio_, Sp. _viaje_, Pt. _viagem_ are
borrowed from Provenēzl!)

FWIW my unnamed Romlang with theworking name R3 has

  * C', TJ > /ts/ > /s/ (spelled _c, ē_) but
  * G', J > /dZ/ (spelled _G, GI, J_),
  * SC' > /S/
  * DJ > /dz/ > /z/ (spelled _z_),
  * CT in all positions and CC' > /tS/, also VIATICUM >
    _viatx_ /vi'jatS/ (_tx_ being the normal spelling of
    /tS/)

In addition X metathesized to SC (the reverse of what
actually happened in French!) and this SC also > /S/ where
applicable. Hence _x_ was an early spelling for /S/,
although later _x_ was /ks/ in loans/learned words from
Latin, and /S/ was spelled _sē_ where not followed by
_e/i/y_, notably at the end of words, e.g. CONSCIUM >
/ko:skju/ > _coux_ > _causē_ /kauS/.

>
> Any ideas will be greatly appreciated.

I hope this helps. There is a problem how to get both /dZ/
and /Z/. Perhaps intervocalic G' and/or SJ (BASIUM, CASEUS)
> /Z/. I'm still mulling over this WRT R3. It is tempting to
have initial J- and G'- develop differently, but there is no
precedence for that. In fact they most probably merged as
/j/ in Vulgar Latin, which then hardened to /J\/ > /dZ/ in
most places, with later /dZ/ > /Z/, and then /Z/ > /S/ > /x/
in Spanish. Intervocalic J remained /j/ unless it
disappeared.

/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se

     a shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot

     (Max Weinreich)


-- 


/BP 8^)>
--
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch at melroch dot se

    a shprakh iz a dialekt mit an armey un flot

                                 (Max Weinreich)

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Error during command authentication.

Error - unable to initiate communication with LISTSERV (errno=111). The server is probably not started.

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager