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AUXLANG  January 2007, Week 1

AUXLANG January 2007, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Interlingue and Interlingua

From:

Antonielly Garcia Rodrigues <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:01:20 -0300

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (83 lines)

On 1/4/07, Steve Rice <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> [...] Now, while the IALA's methods were generally
> understandable, and they could probably in most cases be reproduced, they
> also went generally unrecorded. [...]
>

I would say this is one of the most fundamental problems in the
current description of Interlingua: as AFAIK they did not document how
they obtained the words, it is not easy for us to check if the
"algorithm" is well followed, and if the output stored in the
dictionary is the best one that fits the objectives of the algorithm.

> [...] So if there just doesn't happen to be
> an international form available for a given concept (such as "apple"
> or "spoon"), a description would faithfully record this as a blank. Does
> this happen? No. All concepts are covered, even if it means outright
> borrowing a form from Latin.
>

I think this problem is inherently unavoidable, although its effects
can be reduced more than now. In some cases, it is not possible to
obtain an international form of a word -- the definition of
"international" being the one of Interlingua in this case, namely
appearing a compatible word in at least 3 of the 4 control language
units. In those cases (which fortunately are a minority), we often are
not able to find an objective output by using the algorithm (other
than a blank output). In this case, the solution is inevitably more
subjective: the lexicographer chooses a word that is not so
international (as there is not one) to fill in the blank. Either the
word is straightly borrowed from Latin (a solution I do not like much,
except for names of living species and technical concepts of biology,
chemistry and medicine); other languages which are not on the control
group are also looked upon to find an international version; it is
derived from a reduced number of language units; it is derived from
another word already contained in the current Interlingua vocabulary;
it is derived from other auxlangs (yes, there are some of them too!);
or created in another way. Such a solution has to have a rationale,
because other people ideally have the right of checking if the result
is the best possible given the unavoidable real-world constraints. The
problem, again, is: where is the rationale?

> [...] All of the source languages have a third
> person singular feminine pronoun, and the most common form is something
> like "el[a]." Prototyping turns that into "illa," though "ella" is allowed
> as a collateral form. This tendency to subordinate actual forms to a
> norming principle that enshrines older, less productive, less international
> forms, is fundamental. (I had other examples that were purely lexical, such
> as "celo" and "corriger," in my original post. You might examine them.)
>

Your skepticism is very healthy. I did not know "ela" was more common
and a more honest result than "ila". If the rationale of each word was
present in the dictionary or in another form of documentation,
certainly this kind of problem would have been overcome.
I do not have dictionaries of other languages here, but "celo" seems
to make sense from the perspective of the Portuguese/Spanish language
unit. In Portuguese, "sky" is "céu", and "relative to the sky" is
"celeste". From "celeste" ("sky-ly") one can backwards derive "celo"
as a more regular form for "sky", but, for the inclusion in
Interlingua, I would have to check dictionaries of other languages to
see if "celo" is a suitable prototype.
I intend to create some day an electronic dictionary for Interlingua
which is capable of storing the rationale for *each* word in a
suitable way. The dictionary has to contain the translation of every
Interlingua word to each one of the control languages in an easily
accessible and friendly way. It has also to be a two-way dictionary,
if possible coupled with some thesaurus support (for obtaining related
words and even the derivation tree of some related lexical items).
When I become a professor and researcher in Software Engineering in
some University, after my Ph.D. course, I intend to supervise some
undergraduation students to create this piece of software. This is one
of my plans. This way, our skepticism will be easily satisfiable; we
would just need to take a look at the electronic dictionary, and, if
the algorithm is not well followed, submit a better version of the
word together with its rationale. I believe this would begin another
phase for Interlingua, not in terms of user base, but in terms of
accuracy of the vocabulary and better documentation. Suggestions are
very welcome.

Cheers.

Antonielly Garcia Rodrigues

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