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AUXLANG  January 2007, Week 1

AUXLANG January 2007, Week 1

Subject:

Re: ending vowels

From:

Risto Kupsala <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 1 Jan 2007 14:51:06 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (71 lines)

MacLeod Dave kirjoitti:
> Do you still have that piece of Esperanto without all the endings? I'd 
> be interested in seeing what it looked like.
Yes. The first fragment is the first chapter from article entitled 
Lingvo and the second is the entire article (but a very short one) 
entitled Kongo Brazavila. I replaced all occurences of "kaj" with "&" 
because I didn't expect the test subjects to recognise it at first sight.

 > Ling est sistem gest, sign, son, simbol & vort uzat por reprezent &
 > komunik ide & pens de hom. On pov disting inter ling general & unik
 > ling. On ank uz la vort "ling" por parol pri fak-ling (ekzempl jur-ling),
 > program-ling & animal-ling.

 > Kongo est land en Centr Afrik. La land nom, sam kiel la Kongo Kinshasa,
 > ven de la Kongo river kiu separ la du naci

>
> 2007/1/1, Risto Kupsala <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>>:
>
>     Rex May kirjoitti:
>     > There are various ways to go, and POS marking is one of them,
>     and a very good
>     > one.  One annoying thing about LFN is that just about every word
>     ends in a vowel, but that they
>     > are not POS markings, when they very easily could be, with
>     minimal distortion of roots.
>     >
>     The general problem in part of speech marking is that it forces
>     speakers
>     to distinguish parts of speech ubiquitously. But we know from
>     experience
>     that it's not necessary nor useful in many cases.
>
>     Some months ago I made an experiment where I removed all part of
>     speech
>     markers (-a, -e, -o, -i, -as, -is etc), plural markers, object
>     markers
>     and definite articles from a text taken from Esperanto wikipedia and
>     asked two of my non-Esperanto-speaking friends to translate it to
>     English. The result was that the translations were reasonably accurate
>     judging from the content. The greatest problem was inability to
>     recognise meanings of certain roots.
>
>     This tiny scale experiment illustrates that part of speech marking is
>     largely redundant. It's not completely useless but it's completely
>     unnecessary. I believe that the results would be roughly the same
>     in a
>     scientifically organized experiment with larger sample.
>
>     > In Ceqli, striving for terseness, I don't have POS marking, but
>     rely on word order and particles
>     > (when necessary) to do the job.  That, I think, is a legitimate
>     way to go. (Thanks to JCB for that
>     > idea)
>     That's very true. I would de-emphasize the role of word order and
>     particles and add word meanings and context to the equation.
>
>     For example it's pretty easy to determine the parts of speech from
>     Mandarin sentences like the one below and the only grammatical marker
>     there is "de", which means pretty much the same as English "of"
>     but the
>     word order is opposite. X of Y = Y de X
>
>     wo baba xianzai chi hen hao chi de kao ya.
>     Literally: I father now eat very good eat *de* roast duck.
>     Mia patro nun mang^as tre bonmang^an rostitan(?) anatron.
>
>     -- Risto Kupsala
>
>

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December 1998, Week 5
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December 1997, Week 5
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February 1997, Week 1

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