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CONLANG Home

CONLANG Home

CONLANG  February 2007, Week 2

CONLANG February 2007, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Additional diacritics (was: Phonological equivalent of...)

From:

John Vertical <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 10 Feb 2007 21:09:11 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (60 lines)

Count me among the [P]-for-the-bilab-fric proponents too, as well as the 
can-read-but-not-send-IPA crowd. And now, some comments:

(Benct:)
>and while we're at fool-proofing, why not introduce a\ for
> and 9\ for , to remove the main source of confusion
>between CXS and X-SAMPA?

I use [a\] for the lo _central_ vowel (when plain [a] is not sufficient), as 
per Z-SAMPA. [9\] for  is fine for me, but how commonly does anyone 
actually NEED it?

Furthermore, the Kirshenbaum system also uses [&] for , and then there's 
also the mnemonic that it's the vowel in the English words "and" and 
"ampersand". I'll hang on to this for one.

(Mark:)
>On the other hand, the use of F for the nasal is, to me, one of the most
>baffling of the current symbols.  I find m\ much more legible.  Again,
>there's an analogical argument for M instead, but that would require 
>finding
>a new symbol for unrounded u.  If we were to go that route, I'd suggest w\.
>
>But I'm not proposing any such domino-effect changes.  I simply support the
>use of P for the bilabial fricative and m\ (currently unused in CXS) as an
>alternative symbol for F.

I suspect the "F" stems from an intention to assign every single ASCII glyph 
to something before mooving over to digraphs. I don't think this is crucial 
in any way, however; how commonly have you needed to transcribe a 
labiodental nasal? Especially, in a context other than /mv/ or /mf/?

(Tristan, in reply to Benct:)
>>Moreover I think b\ and p\ should be (re)assigned to ȸ
>>U+0238 LATIN SMALL LETTER DB DIGRAPH and ȹ U+0239 LATIN
>>SMALL LETTER QP DIGRAPH
>
>Now that idea I am wholly against. It's one thing to redefine an
>unrecommended symbol when there's perceived to be a problem.
>It's another thing to redefine a default symbol for something to a
>character that isn't even standard IPA.

I figure anyone's free to use those in ad hoc transcription, however.

(Isaac:)
>So, if one wants a symbol to be used, let him use it, and
>specify what it means, untill the community sees the
>advantages or at least start understanding what you mean.
>At the same time, apply common sense and avoid radicalism.
>Stability is the best guarantee that we will be able to
>understand one another. Remember the tower of Babel ! :)

Amen.

John Vertical

_________________________________________________________________
Uutiset ja kasvot uutisten takaa. MSN Search, tyden palvelun hakukone. 
http://search.msn.fi

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