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AUXLANG  March 2007, Week 3

AUXLANG March 2007, Week 3

Subject:

Re: International Memorandum Nr. 17

From:

Antonielly Garcia Rodrigues <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 18 Mar 2007 20:19:40 -0300

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (170 lines)

On 3/18/07, auliuniv <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> Thank you! Again, this is the whole point! InterlinguE was *not* developed to be a regional
> language.

Neither Interlingua. All I said was my personal stance on the matter.
In *my* opinion, Interlingua is more suitable as a regional auxlang.
However Interlingua was not intended *by its creators* as a regional
auxlang, but as a WAL. It is important to notice that most Interlingua
speakers disagree with my opinion. And I am still not an expert in
Interlingua.

I do not learn Interlingua because I believe it will become a popular
IAL. My reasons for studying Interlingua have few things to do with
auxlanging. They are two different, and separate, hobbies for me:
discussing auxlangs and studying Interlingua. I defend Interlingua
here when you perform innacurate observations the same way as I defend
Esperanto, Ido and Occidental in Interlingua lists when Interlingua
speakers perform innacurate observations. I just happen to defend
Interlingua more than I defend Esperanto here as a side effect that I
know much more about Interlingua than about Esperanto, not because I
find Esperanto a worse system.

>
> Here then, is the basic difference between Occidental and ILa, and your own words support
> it.
>

Please do not mix my words with the words of the language creators.

> Occidental is meant to be as international as possible and accepts input from as many
> languages as possible to include the most people as possible.
>

It seems some important world languages are not present in group of
the "source languages" of Occidental. Where are Mandarin, Hindi,
Swahili, Arabic and Japanese?

> Interlingua, on the other hand, limits itself to a region, primarily sud-romanic.
>

It is basically limited to the Angloromance world, not to the
sud-romanic world. However, do not forget that a good part of the
Interlingua vocabulary is pan-european. It is a consequence of
choosing important centers of radiation as the source languages. So,
whereas languages such as Esperanto cannot compete against Interlingua
to the Angloromance world, Esperanto and Interlingua are good
competitors when they are analysed as possible solutions to choose the
European IAL. As the WAL, I personally believe that Interlingua is a
bit less suitable than Esperanto.

Occidental could be a good competitor against Interlingua if the
contest is for choosing the European IAL. But I believe Interlingua
wins Occidental with a bit of advantage, because, whereas both
languages are similar, the Interlingua  development process is much
more systematic and objective.

> And, this is why I have said Occidental in its structure and vocabulary can reach a much
> wider audience than ILa.
>

I do not agree with this. As I have said, a good share of the
Interlingua vocabulary is pan-european as a consequence of its source
languages be important centers of radiation.

Moreover, the difference between "instrumento" and "instrument" might
matter in theory, but does not exist in practice.

> Another difference is this, in my mind, Interlinguists want and love a language that looks like
> another romance language and looks and tastes like ancient Latin too. Thus, they can
> present an "educated" look since only the "highly educated" study or have studied Latin.

Each person has a different motivation for studying Interlingua. You
cannot put everybody in the same sack. I personally study Interlingua
because of the propedeutic benefits I obtain to learn other Romance
languages, such as French and Italian. I use it as a means for an end,
not as an end in itself.

> It is
> a language for academics who sit on cloud nine and believes the rest of the world loves
> ancient Latin too.

Interlingua is not ancient Latin. Your description would better fit
LsF than Interlingua, but even for LsF your argument would be
inaccurate and pejorative.

> Plus, many scientific words are "latin" and "greek". However, what the
> ILaists doesn't seem to see is that the scientific words are recognized as that.

Many non-scientific words present in many European languages originate
from latin and greek. See the English words "grange", "pork", "table",
"paper" and "family", for instance. Interlingua wasn't conceived just
for scientific usage.

>
>  It is an excellent IAL for the Angloromance world. I
> > have
> > never claimed it is the most suitable IAL for the whole world.
> >
>
> Again, this is the very reason for Occidental over Interlingua. Occidental is not limited just to
> the angloromance world.
>

It depends on the reason for what. If you mean that Occidental would
be the best WAL we could achieve, then I completely disagree. It is
too European and too little worldwide.

>
> >
> > For those who like the idea of a single WAL, it could be that the
> > successful deployment of some regional IALs would be a good
> > intermediate step to achieve the WAL. The WAL could be the result
> > of
> > the natural interaction between the regional IALs (like a pidgin
> > or
> > creole).
>
> Takes too much time and too much selling to go this route. It has already been shown that
> this won't work.

I am also sceptical that it would work, but it was never shown that it
wouldn't work, primarily because people have not designed, AFAIK, a
regional language for Asia, another for Africa, etc.

> >
> > No. The "-o" in "instrumento" has nothing to do with the existence
> > of
> > the "-o" in Italian, Spanish and Portuguese. That similarity is an
> > accident. The "-o" is there because the *common ancestor* for
> > *all*
> > modern variants contains it.
>
> That has nothing to do with using instrument. It has to do with recognizeability to the most
> people.
>

Incredible as it may be for you, "recognizability" was not a quality
objective for Interlingua. The words in Interlingua that are
recognizable -- i.e. most of them -- are recognizable *by accident*.
All that IALA wanted to achieve was "translinguality to the last
consequences". Recognizability, regularity, ease of learning,
simplicity, and any other good quality criteria you can conceive, were
not objectives for Interlingua; they happen to exist in the final
result due to a lucky accident.

> >
> > I wouldn't call it an "ancient arcaism" if it exists in modern
> > languages spoken nowadays by hundreds of millions (Portuguese, for
> > instance, contains the word "instrumento").
>
> That is why instrument is included by de Wahl! He recognized that the -o was not relevant in
> choosing the word.

In Interlingua, it is relevant because it is translingual. Understand
"translingual" roughly as "existing in the nearest common ancestor for
the derivational series of that word, and thus traceable to many
languages".

> IALA went one step further than
> De Wahl did on this international usage of words. IALA under Gode took a step backward
> and gave you a regional language, at best. And, you verified it above.
>

I suggest you to read the 1945 "IALA General Report" (in English). You
can easily find it in a Google Search (without quotes). Gode acted
completely according to the principles IALA defined back then.

Antonielly Garcia Rodrigues

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