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AUXLANG  April 2007, Week 1

AUXLANG April 2007, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Esperantists AND cowards?

From:

"Donald J. HARLOW" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 4 Apr 2007 15:51:05 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (90 lines)

Je 10.33 atm 2007.04.04, vi skribis
>Steve skripted:
>
> >You should go over the archives sometime. He bailed
>on Ido because the
>Authorities wouldn't approve neologisms fast enough
>and he was gagging on
>asterisks, which I think are made from recycled daft
>hats.
>
>Nice idea, Steve, you might even be right.  I'm all
>into recycling these days, anyhow.  I would be happy
>for anyone to go over the archives and I stand by
>everything I said on the Ido forums and my decision to
>"bail" (your word).  The issue was that Ido is not
>allowed to have a word for "computer", I don't know
>why, you'll have to ask the Idists.  I tried for ten
>years to get them to add one, ten years using a
>computer (primarily, at least) to read and write,
>sometimes even speak and listen to Ido, but still I'm
>not allowed an official word for that indispensible
>tool, and have to write komputoro* or komputilo* if I
>want to talk about it.  I don't understand why Ido is
>not allowed to have a word for this concept and until
>this situation is rectified I have no intention of
>being an Idist.

There was no official word for "computer" in Esperanto, either, until 
three or four weeks ago. (Technically, there's still no official word 
for "computer" in Esperanto; the new official word is the verb 
"komputi", from which "komputilo" is formed.) The question is, was 
there a word in Ido (or perhaps two or three words, as your two 
asterisked forms suggest) that were in common use? The vocabulary of 
a language, in practice, is determined by what people use, not by 
what some central group of a dozen people agree to. People have been 
speaking of computers in Esperanto, one way or another, since there 
have been computers, (*) official vocabulary be damned, and I suspect 
that the situation is not different with Ido. (The question of "why 
the asterisks?" remains; certainly they are not a problem in speech, 
as opposed to writing. [**])

> >Someof us pointed
>out that Eo's official additions aren't very frequent
>either and suggested that
>he simply ignore the asterisk convention and use
>whatever word was
>necessary. No luck.
>
>It may not be entirely to do with the frequency of
>additions.  The blatant fact is that Ido needs to join
>the modern world, it also needs a central organisation
>that does something for the movement as opposed to
>nothing.  The Espists may be happy with the frequency
>of vocab updates, but the fact is that Esp does seem
>to have entered the 21st century, Ido has not and no
>longer even seems to have the mechanisms to do so.

Again, the only mechanism necessary is a speaking population. 
However, I would not disagree that for a small planned language an 
active central organization is, if not a _sine qua non_, a very 
useful center around which the rest of the movement can find its 
bearings. Institutionalizing things like decisions relating to an 
_official_ vocabulary can be a highly desirable situation.

("Official addition to the vocabulary" is not quite the same as 
"vocabulary update"; the latter happens every time somebody uses a neologism.)

---

(*) Esperanto vacillated between "komputero", "komputoro", 
"komputatoro" and "komputilo", not to mention such off-the-wall 
proposals as "komptilo", for a quarter of a century, though it was 
pretty obvious which of these was going to win out in half that time. 
The main holdouts were certain West European lexicographers, and the 
best argument they could come up with was that, in the old "Plena 
Vortaro", the totally unofficial verb "komputi" was already 
unofficially defined as measuring flow rather than doing whatever it 
is that computers do.

(**) Question in re use of Ido: it is obvious (I hope!) that Ido is 
used at the annual Ido-Konferoj. Is Ido ever *spoken*, as opposed to 
written, under any other circumstances?


-- Don HARLOW
http://www.webcom.com/~donh/don/don.html
Opinions (in English): http://www.harlows.org/don/opinions/
Esperanto (in English): http://www.harlows.org/don/esperanto/
Literaturo (Esperante): http://donh.best.vwh.net/Esperanto/Literaturo

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