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AUXLANG  May 2007, Week 4

AUXLANG May 2007, Week 4

Subject:

Re: Derivations and algorithms

From:

Antonielly Garcia Rodrigues <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 22 May 2007 16:37:52 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (132 lines)

On 5/21/07, Donald J. HARLOW <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> (1) All of the words quoted by Antonielly and Kjell are adjectives
> (though an educated English speaker, seeing "pedestre" and "equestre"
> -- the other four words quoted here will mean nothing to him, except
> that "silvestre" looks like the name of a cartoon cat -- will think
> of nouns).

The passive recognizability properties of Interlingua certainly work
better for Romance language speakers. For English speakers, the
passive recognizability is smaller. I have no doubt of that.

By the way, all of those words are exactly the same in Portuguese, so
educated Portuguese language speakers would comprehend them
automagically.

> In four of them, the four that English speakers won't
> recognize, the -estre at the end simply seems to mean "this is an
> adjective, pertaining to what's in the root to which it's attached"
> -- the moral equivalent of the Esperanto -a. According to Bernasconi,
> there are about 25 such suffixes.
>

Interlingua is simpler than languages such as Portuguese, but it is no
simpler than Esperanto (nor it was designed to be so). If some
Interlingua advocate tells you that Interlingua is simpler than
Esperanto, do not believe in his declaration.

> On the other hand, in the other two words -estre seems to mean:
> "pertaining to a person who travels by means of what's in the root".
> So in other words, -estre seems to have different meanings, depending
> on which word it's attached to.
>
> _Is_ there some specific meaning for -estre that would make it
> possible to use it productively?

I see "-estre" as meaning "relative to". So, "pedestre" is "relative
to feet", "campestre" is "relative to the field / to the rural areas",
etc.

> In other words, if I coined the word
> "autestre", would this mean, "pertaining to an automobile" or
> "pertaining to a person who travels by automobile"? And, given that
> there's no similar term in any of the source languages, at least as
> far as I know, would I even be _allowed_ to coin such a term?
>

Yes, you are allowed to coin neologisms in Interlingua. In theory,
they are valid Interlingua words provided they contain roots and
affixes that already belong to the Interlingua pool. For instance, the
feminine of "professor" could be "professora" or "professoressa", as
"-essa" is one of the suffixes that indicate "female", and in many
cases "-a" also means "female".

Moreover, you can also create neologisms in some cases where some of
the morphemes chosen do not belong to the Interlingua pool. For
instance, I could say in valid Interlingua that the advocates of the
current Brazilian federal government are "lulistas" (the current
president, Luiz Inácio da Silva, is known by the nickname "Lula"). And
people against the current government could be named "antilulistas".

A practical (and not theoretical) restriction to neologisms is that
you should only develop words that are quite comprehensible for your
readers. After all, your objective is efficient communication, I
suppose. I guess this pragmatical restriction applies to Esperanto
too. Sensibility is important in everything, including language
matters.

I believe the practical restriction I mentioned would prevent the
successful comprehension of "autestre" for most language users
(although it would not prevent its creation and its legitimacy as a
possibly valid word in Interlingua which is not currently registered
in a dictionary). If you mentioned that word to me without mentioning
about automobiles, I would wonder "What does 'relative to auto' means?
What is an 'auto'? A 'robot' or something 'automatic'?".

Neologism creation in Interlingua tends to be more liberal than in
natlangs, as, for natlangs, there is a subjective measure of
"aesthetic weirdness" that prevents the creation of certain
neologisms. As Interlingua is a second language, and not a first
language, for its community of speakers, such feelings of "aesthetic
weirdness" are usually less pronounced.

> (2) At first thought, "equestre" seemed unusual to me, given that the
> word for "horse" in Interlingua really ought to be "caballo" or
> "cavallo" or even "chevalo" (Fr. "cheval", Sp. "caballo", It.
> "cavallo", supported by English "cavalier" and "chivalry"), and that
> "equo" would be a pure Latinism.

The source languages support the concepts of "equotherapy". Moreover,
"female horse" is "égua" in Portuguese. So, it is not a pure latinism.

> The dictionary informs me, however,
> that not only is "horse" "cavallo", it's also "equo" and even --
> frosting on the cake! -- "hippo" (generally used as a prefix, though
> you can also find the adjective "hippic", -ic being another one of
> those endings that mean more or less the same as the single Esperanto

Yes, "hippo-" is not a word, but a morpheme, present in words such as
"hippocampo" and "hippodromo". Not all morphemes are words in
Interlingua. Another example is "hom-", which appears in words such as
"homicida" and "homicidio". I agree this makes the language more
complex than Esperanto (in which all morphemes can also be words),
but, again, simplicity was not a design criterium for conceiving
Interlingua.

> -a). My question would be:
>
> If I were to learn Interlingua, which of these should I take to mean
> "horse"? Or would I have to learn all three? And which ones would I
> use where? How would I know?
>

The guideline is: if an IED entry appears followed or preceded by "-",
then it is a morpheme, not a word. E.g.: "hippo-", "hom-". Otherwise,
it is a word.

"Horse" can be "caballo" (directly supported by most source languages)
or "equo" (indirectly supported by various source languages in forms
similar to "equoterapia" and "equin", and directly supported by
Portuguese through the word "égua"). Despite being a morpheme
supported by words from most source languages, "hippo" does not exist
as a word in Interlingua because no source language, AFAIK, directly
supports it as a word.

You can use "caballo" or "equo" anywhere you want to use "horse". Yes,
you would have to learn all three morphemes (not an issue if you are a
Romance language speaker, as you would probably know all or at least
most of them).

Antonielly Garcia Rodrigues

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