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CONLANG  June 2007, Week 1

CONLANG June 2007, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Allophone Problem

From:

Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 7 Jun 2007 13:34:43 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (57 lines)

Joseph Fatula wrote:
> >   - [nef] > [neva]
> >   - [niv] > [niva]
> >
> > Among words with the "-a" suffix, this [e] vs. [i] distinction is the
> > only thing showing the difference between words like [neva] and
> > [niva].  Are these minimal pairs?  Are [e] and [i] separate phonemes?
> >
>
> Looking at everybody's responses so far, it seems as though most of you
> think these are two separate phonemes.  Disagreement seems to be
> centered around the idea of distinct underlying phonemes that happen to
> have the same phonetic realization.  I'm not sure whether I like this
> idea or not.

This is the old Bi-uniqueness Problem of classical Phonemics:  1) given a 
phonemic form, the phonetic form must be predictable, and 2) given a 
phonetic form, the phonemic form must be predictable. Thus the problem with 
e.g. German [bUnt] =? bunt 'colored' or Bund 'association'; and oddities 
like Engl. house ~houses [haUz@z], vs. most (all?) other words with a /-s/ 
that doesn't voice in the plural. Same for /-f ~ -v-/ -- of course the 
_spelling_ differences give it away; there are historical reasons.

In the mini-ex you gave, it is in fact possible to predict the phonemic 
forms from the phonetic, _provided_ that the vowel [e] occurs in just that 
one environment-- if ones hears a form with [e + vd.fric +V-suffix] one 
_knows_ that it must have a vl.fric in the un-suffixed form, since that is 
the only possible source of [e]. (One also knows that [niva] _can't_ derive 
from */nif/.) How you deal with that is another matter.

The cop-out :-) analysis is simply to say: there's this vowel [e] that's 
phonemic (or contrastive) only under two conditions: presence of a vowel 
suffix, and intervocalic C-voicing.

That ought to raise red flags-- conditions usually indicate that something 
predictable is going on, and the forms are not a true minimal pair. 
(Similarly, if houses::kisses [haUz@z : kIs@z] was our best evidence for the 
s:z contrast in Engl. it would be suspicious for similar reasons --1) 
morpheme boundary 2) presence of apparently irreg. voicing in 'houses', as 
evidenced by the larger number of [-s# ~ -s+@s] forms.

It's true that such forms were a quandary for phonemics; but using inflected 
or derived forms of the same word to establish minimal pairs was always a 
little suspect. Toward the end of the classical period (as generative ideas 
were beginning), a few people took up the idea of "ordered rules", so that 
e.g. you could have _phonemic_ Germ. /bund/ + a rule devoicing finals. But 
the idea of really abstract underlying forms came later.
>
> The examples I gave you were not the actual ones I've been looking at.
> I disguised it like this because I didn't want to start Yet Another
> English Pronunciation Thread, since I'm actually trying to diagnose
> something in the dialect of English I speak.  By this rendering of
> things, I'm using way too many vowel sounds, far more than I'd ever put
> in any conlang.
>
Hmm, it would be interesting to know what the question is........ 

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