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CONLANG  June 2007, Week 4

CONLANG June 2007, Week 4

Subject:

Re: USAGE: I'd rather (was: Re: Journalists)

From:

Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 28 Jun 2007 12:29:01 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (61 lines)

Paul Roser wrote:

> On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 12:19:57 -0400, Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> >If memory serves (I'm too lazy to check my Shorter OED just now), 
> >"rather"
> >is an old comparative form whose base (rath-) meant 'soon'-- thus the
> >near-synonymous "(I would ~I'd) sooner XXX(verb) than YYY(verb)"
> >
>
> Your memory serves you well - this is what the online American heritage
> dictionary gave me:
> ***
> [Middle English, from Old English hrathor comparative of hręthe, quickly,
> soon, from hręth, quick.]

(snipalot that I wish I'd written :-))))
>
When a rather is used in this construction, rather qualifies only the
> adjective, whereas with rather a it qualifies either the adjective or the
> entire noun phrase. Thus a rather long ordeal can mean only "an ordeal 
> that
> is rather long," whereas rather a long ordeal can also mean roughly "a 
> long
> process that is something of an ordeal." Rather a is the only possible
> choice when the adjective itself does not permit modification: The horse 
> was
> rather a long shot (not The horse was a rather long shot ).
> [The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
> Copyright © 2005, 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.]
> ***

Hmmm, Although it's true that "long shot" is an idiom, more or less a 
lexical unit, still it's literal meaning is recoverable, and my feeling is 
that these last two sentences show the same distinction as the "ordeal" exs. 
And although I use it, "rather a(n) XXX" feels just a tad British (or maybe 
a little hoity-toity*) to me.

(*But then, "British" and "hoity-toity" are sort-of synonymous to us 
Murrcans, aren't they? :-)  )

>
> They don't seem to address the usage of 'rather that X' which Carsten 
> noted,
> which I'd guess ot be an extension of 'would/had rather X'
>
Actually Sai's phrase "...I'd rather that not be public information..." is 
OK, not an ex. of "connective" _that_. Substitute "it" for his "that", and 
you'll see. His "that" is the subject (new) of the second clause

"I'd rather [that] that (~it) not be public information" is the underlying 
structure, with optional deletion of the connective.

In the case of e.g. "I'd rather not do that" (< //I'd rather [that] I not do 
that//) both the connective and the same-subject are deleted obligatorily. 
Compare
"I'd rather you(~he, we, they) not do that"" = "I'd rather that you(~he, we, 
they) not do that"

(Whee, the moribund Engl. present subjunctive!!!) 

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