On Fri, 2007-28-09 at 21:09 +0300, George Cristian Bina wrote:
> Hi Martin,
> Thanks for the quick feedback!
> It is clear that there is no WYSIWYG for XML, the whole idea with XML is
> to get more than one thing, the term that I used is "WYSIWYG like". A
> better term is perhaps tagless editing?
Tagless editing might be better--I agree that WYSIWYG seems to work
against the whole point of XML, especially in its TEI form.
I wonder also if it might be useful to emphasis a distinction between
display and editing. Having just taught a student assistant to use
Oxygen 8.2 I know that she finds it extremely valuable to periodically
apply a stylesheet to the XML to see what it looks like on the screen
(we all intuitively understand structure as it is expressed in layout,
afterall). Maybe a true tagless editing environment would give the
option of two windows: a color-coded editing environment in one panel
that allowed you to enter your work without working about "all those
tags" and a parallel browser-type window that optionally showed the
results of your work as it would be displayed using your basic xslt and
css (with perhaps a set of default ones). Ideally this would refresh and
apply the transformations as you typed in the same way the validation
works now in Oxygen; but I suspect that would be involve way too much
overhead. A refresh button would do as well.
But then I've not had time to try out the beta yet.
> Note that you do not need to go back to the text mode to see what was
> added, just look in the outliner and you will see the tree structure.
> The rendering of the XML through the CSS is written in oXygen, there is
> no standard Java component used for that.
> Best Regards,
> George Cristian Bina - http://aboutxml.blogspot.com/
> <oXygen/> XML Editor, Schema Editor and XSLT Editor/Debugger
> Martin Holmes wrote:
> > Hi there,
> > I'm just trying this out for the first time, using Ubuntu Gutsy and
> > Sun's JRE 1.6. It seems to work pretty well, and I'm really pleased to
> > see the level of detail in the CSS rendering (a <soCalled> tag showed up
> > with "scare quotes" around it automatically), and the GUI seems pretty
> > effective and responsive. I did manage to get into trouble a couple of
> > times -- trying to add a new paragraph, I ended up adding one outside
> > the <body> tag, which was invalid, and I had a little difficulty
> > escaping from an itemized list once I was in one, without ending up
> > outside the body.
> > There are some things which couldn't easily be handled in a WYSIWYG
> > manner. For instance, this structure:
> > <choice>
> > <abbr>UN</abbr>
> > <expan>United Nations</expan>
> > </choice>
> > shows up with both UN and United Nations visible, with tag start and end
> > symbols in the right places. That's probably what you want when editing,
> > but it's not WYSIWYG in the sense that it probably won't be what you
> > want in any kind of output.
> > I think this is an important development because it looks as though it's
> > close to being as good as WYSIWYG could be in this kind of context. That
> > means it will give us a sound basis to evaluate the proposition that
> > WYSIWYG editing is an effective method of editing the kinds of XML
> > documents we create. I don't believe it is, personally, but I know
> > several people who refuse to learn XML because they're waiting for
> > WYSIWYG editing, and others who believe that "average users" will be
> > much better served by a WYSIWYG editor than a conventional one.
> > I suspect that people coming to XML editing for the first time might
> > find this seductive, but that they'll get into trouble fairly quickly
> > (not bothering to distinguish between <emph>, <hi rend="italic"> or
> > <foreign>, because they "look the same"). Old hands, who generally know
> > exactly what they want to do and are just looking for the fastest way to
> > do it, will find this editor a bit frustrating because they won't
> > _quite_ be sure they got what they intended unless they flip back to the
> > text mode, and they'll end up using text mode again. But that's just my
> > guess -- now we'll be able to find out.
> > A question for George: what Java text field component are you using for
> > this? Is it written especially for oXygen?
> > Cheers,
> > Martin
> > George Cristian Bina wrote:
> >> Dear friends,
> >> We made available a beta version of oXygen 9, please help us testing it
> >> http://www.oxygenxml.com/download-beta.html
> >> The new version adds tagless editing support based on CSS and it
> >> includes ready to use support for TEI (P4 and P5). That support
> >> includes also built in custom actions similar with what you find in a
> >> word processor
> >> - make bold, italic, underlined
> >> - insert section, paragraph, image
> >> - insert lists and list items
> >> - insert tables, rows, columns and cells
> >> To switch in tagless editing mode just click on the Author tab in the
> >> editor (next to the Text and Grid tabs). Then you can navigate/move
> >> inside the document and you will see a position tooltip that indicates
> >> where you are in the markup. Just type to edit the content and press
> >> Enter if you want to enter markup. A content completion like popup
> >> will appear and you will be able to type to select a proposal.
> >> Attributes are edited in the attributes view on the side.
> >> There were also improvements in the error reporting when validating
> >> against a Relax NG schema, so this is important if you work with P5.
> >> Incomplete error messages like:
> >> - required attributes missing
> >> - required elements missing
> >> - unfinished element
> >> were improved to actually specify what are the missing attributes or
> >> elements that are expected.
> >> Best Regards,
> >> George
> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> George Cristian Bina - http://aboutxml.blogspot.com/
> >> <oXygen/> XML Editor, Schema Editor and XSLT Editor/Debugger
> >> http://www.oxygenxml.com
Daniel Paul O'Donnell, PhD
Chair, Text Encoding Initiative <http://www.tei-c.org/>
Director, Digital Medievalist Project <http://www.digitalmedievalist.org/>
Associate Professor and Chair of English
University of Lethbridge
Lethbridge AB T1K 3M4
Vox: +1 403 329 2378
Fax: +1 403 382-7191