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CONLANG  October 2007, Week 1

CONLANG October 2007, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Consonant allophones in Minza

From:

Herman Miller <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 4 Oct 2007 22:27:47 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (76 lines)

Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:

> Unfortunately you'd have to use combining diacritics most of
> the time. There is U+1DC4 COMBINING MACRON-ACUTE which might
> be used in combination with these for long stressed vowels.

That one doesn't even appear to be in Arial Unicode MS or Microsoft Sans 
Serif.

> Actually it is not much of an issue IMO, but I see no reason
> why you can't use IPA characters:
> 
> |  Front: i e æ ø y
> |  Back:  ɯ ə a o u
> 
> which BTW all have corresponding capitals Æ Ø Ɯ Ǝ.

I may end up using ø for /@/ (as in the second of the two relays where I 
used Minza), which at least has a precomposed character with acute 
accent ǿ. Hmm, it seems that ǽ is also supported in the common Windows 
fonts; I wonder which language uses ǿ and ǽ?

> Although Ǝ seems to properly be the capital of ɘ I much
> prefer it to Ə. It is not altogether satisfying IMHO to
> have ɯ and w in the same orthography (which one is 'double
> u'?), but the problem with Ɨɨ is that there's no dotless
> ɨ to use with diacritics. You might use U+1D7B LATIN SMALL
> CAPITAL LETTER I WITH STROKE at a pinch.

At least Minza doesn't have a /w/, so that wouldn't be a problem, but I 
don't like the idea of ɯ (Vietnamese ư would look better).

> It just strikes me that you can use something similar to the
> system for length and stress marking used in some Swedish
> dictionaries and educational material:
> 
> | short unstressed:   ö   (no subscript)
> | short stressed:     ọ̈  (dot below)
> | long stressed:      ö̱  (macron below)
> 
> The snag is that in Swedish length can occur only combined
> with (primary or secondary) stress. If you need a system
> without that limitation you may perhaps use
> 
> | short unstressed:   ö
> | short stressed:     ö̯  (inverted breve)
> | long unstressed:    ọ̈
> | long stressed:      ö̱

I've been trying to figure out if length is predictable from stress or 
vice versa. I think I can predict the length of unstressed vowels at least.

> An alternative might be to use the IPA stress mark, perhaps
> placed directly *after* the stressed vowel
> 
> | short unstressed:   ö
> | short stressed:     öˈ
> | long unstressed:    ö̱
> | long stressed:      ö̱ˈ
> 
> Graphically I'd prefer a slightly slanting line like a
> prime. (Which for some reason is lacking in DejaVu Serif!)
> It may then alternate with superscript acute on vowels
> without umlaut. That presupposes you don't use prime or
> apostrophe for something else.

The problem with prime is that some fonts only have U+02B9, but others 
only have U+2032.

> Is it only I, BTW, who likes the idea of ẅ for [H] and ẇ
> for [u\_^]?

For some reason I used to have ÿ for [H] and ẅ for [M\] (e.g. in 
1980's-era spelling of Olaetian). But ẅ for [H] makes sense from analogy 
with ü for [y].

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