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AUXLANG  October 2007, Week 3

AUXLANG October 2007, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Worldlangs critique

From:

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Reply-To:

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Date:

Thu, 18 Oct 2007 13:20:28 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (82 lines)

> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Rice

> >So I also see no problem in taking the originally english "go"
> > in form of "gou", as one can simply hear this u-like element being
> >pronounced. That doesn't make the word completely unfamiliar for
> >native English speakers and, at the same time, it does make it more
> >clear for those who don't speak but just hear the English being
> >spoken.
>
> Okay, let's follow that reasoning and see where it leads. It
> means that, since
> there is a significant difference between Chinese and English
> <r>, you're going
> to need at least two rhotics. (Actually many more.) It means
> that any time
> you borrow an English word with an initial, single voiceless
> stop, you must
> indicate the aspiration. If you take ?pisi (PC) for
> "computer," you MUST write
> it "phisi" and expect everyone else to pronounce it thus.
> (Note: this is a
> hypothetical case. I'm not saying that you have adopted this
> form or should do so.)
>
> Some phonemic differences are major; others are not. Though [S] is
an
> allophone of [s] in Japanese, it's good to retain the
> distinction in borrowings.
> Aspiration of English stops should never be indicated, and
> neither should the
> odd glide. Given that an increasingly large proportion of
> English speakers are
> not from traditionally English-speaking countries (i.e., the
> speakers have been
> strongly influenced by L2 pronunciation and grammar, even if
> they grew up
> speaking Singlish or whatever), the likelihood that these
> quirks of British and
> American English will continue to predominate is iffy.

The aspiration in English exists, but it is not a phonemic
distinction, so it's really not worth indicating it except maybe in
languages which do have an aspirated distinction themselves, though I
think it's not good to have that in an auxlang.  The aspiration in
English seems to be more of a parsing aid than anything else.

> >As for <ao> and <aw>, they don't have equal rights in Lingwa de
> >Planeta. <ao> is used quite often in different words, while <aw>
> >appears only in a pair of words, with <w> always creating a new
> >syllable, as in "djawabi" (to answer), for example.
>
> Then <ao> reflects a true diphthong, while <aw> does not. But I
thought
> Dmitriy gave a form written "naw"? If that isn't a
> diphthong--if it doesn't sound
> like the Esperanto word for "nine"--it must be hard to pronounce.

Unfortunately most people aren't going to be able to figure out the
difference between <ao> and <aw> so they will likely end up being
pronounced the same, and ultimately you'll probably see numerous
spelling errors as users try to equate the spoken and written forms.
Even [aU] and [oU] are going to be a problem for some people to figure
out.

> >Now some words about phonology and phonetics in general. There is a
> >difference between them. Phonology deals mainly with sound
> >oppositions, while the chief aim of phonetics is to describe the
way
> >the sounds are actually pronounced. I think it is useless to speak
> >about phonetics before the language is a living one indeed. At the
> >moment we both (me and Dmitry) do use the language a lot in our
> >communication but mainly in its written form. Just because we do
> >communicate mainly in writing. But we do have an LdP-club where we
> >do teach our language. Dealing with phonetics, we try not to teach
> >new sounds but rather observe the way the students pronounce our
> >words, making just minor comments on it.
>
> It would be better to make allowances for orthoepic problems
> than to enshrine them in the language's phonology.

Agreed.

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