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AUXLANG  October 2007, Week 3

AUXLANG October 2007, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Worldlangs critique

From:

Steve Rice <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 19 Oct 2007 01:07:54 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (83 lines)

On Thu, 18 Oct 2007 09:46:58 -0000, lingwadeplaneta
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:

>--- In [log in to unmask], Steve Rice <ansric@...> wrote:
>>
>> >So I also see no problem in taking the originally english "go"
>> > in form of "gou", as one can simply hear this u-like element being
>> >pronounced. That doesn't make the word completely unfamiliar for
>> >native English speakers and, at the same time, it does make it more
>> >clear for those who don't speak but just hear the English being
>> >spoken.
>>
>> Okay, let's follow that reasoning and see where it leads. It means
>that, since
>> there is a significant difference between Chinese and English <r>,
>you're going
>> to need at least two rhotics. (Actually many more.) It means that
>any time
>> you borrow an English word with an initial, single voiceless stop,
>you must
>> indicate the aspiration. If you take ?pisi (PC) for "computer," you
>MUST write
>> it "phisi" and expect everyone else to pronounce it thus. (Note:
>this is a
>> hypothetical case. I'm not saying that you have adopted this form or
>should
>> do so.)
>
>Thank you for the note :) But actually things are different. Yes, when
>taking words from the world's languages, we follow them rather
>phonetically, not phonemically (as Risto put it), and perhaps this is
>the best way, given all the factors. But. In no way we try to
>reproduce all the world's sounds. Please note it. I'd like to repeat
>it once again that we choose sound appearances for our words sifting
>other languages' words through the sieve of our own phonological
>system. Extending your comparison with the phonological breadbox :)
>we've made a sieve out of it and so we get LdP from Chinese, English etc.
>For example, there is only one R in our phonological system, so any
>rhotic sound automatically becomes R. Of course, in reality it might
>be pronounced differently by Chinese and English people, but this is
>completely another question. We have only one R. Also, we have only
>one H which includes all kinds of similar sounds. Etc.
>
Why not go for three out of three and have only one O? You could use it for
both the Spanish and English <o>.
>
>> Aspiration of English stops should never be indicated, and neither
>should the
>> odd glide. Given that an increasingly large proportion of English
>speakers are
>> not from traditionally English-speaking countries (i.e., the
>speakers have been
>> strongly influenced by L2 pronunciation and grammar, even if they
>grew up
>> speaking Singlish or whatever), the likelihood that these quirks of
>British and
>> American English will continue to predominate is iffy.
>
>We do not indicate aspiration of English stops. As to the glide, you
>made me meditate on it.

I can't help wondering whether that meditation would be represented by [om]
or [oUm]...
>>
>> >As for <ao> and <aw>, they don't have equal rights in Lingwa de
>> >Planeta. <ao> is used quite often in different words, while <aw>
>> >appears only in a pair of words, with <w> always creating a new
>> >syllable, as in "djawabi" (to answer), for example.
>>
>> Then <ao> reflects a true diphthong, while <aw> does not. But I thought
>> Dmitriy gave a form written "naw"? If that isn't a diphthong--if it
>doesn't sound
>> like the Esperanto word for "nine"--it must be hard to pronounce.
>
>
>We don't have "naw". I gave "nau". Of course I could mistype, despite
>that the corresponding keys are far enough...
>
It's more likely my mistake. I'm writing all this at the end of a rather long day,
so I'm surprised that it's even coherent.

Steve

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