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AUXLANG  October 2007, Week 5

AUXLANG October 2007, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Why cross-linguistic world auxiliary language?

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Date:

Wed, 31 Oct 2007 18:34:41 -0400

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> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Risto Kupsala
>  > Yes, it does make as much sense, by which I mean I'd be willing
to
>  > learn a language based on only these languages if it used a
>  > streamlined system similar to the ones used in those
> languages, in the
>  > same way that 'Euroclones' imitate those in western European
>  > languages.
>
> I'd be willing to learn such languages too because I'm a language
> enthusiast. I have played with the idea of making a  Pan-African
IAL, a
> Uralic-Altaic IAL and a Sinitic IAL but I haven't put too  much
time to
> them because each of them would require as much research as what
I'm
> currently putting to Pandunia, just on a more detailed scale. All
of
> them would be interesting, but the important question is, would
the
> creation of any such languages bring us any closer to the
> real target, the *global* IAL?

I can't say I'd learn such languages, there are already conlangs
like this in Existence but I would certainly take a look at such
creations.  I do have the beginnings of a Sinitic language in the
works, but I wouldn't even begin to call it an IAL, likewise I've
toyed with the idea of maybe an Austronesian based conlang, but
again I'm not going to advocate or promote it as an auxlang, except
maybe on a regional level.

>  > Generally the more source languages you use the more the
>  > language becomes simply a collection of words (that the
creator(s)
>  > likely has little understanding of. Not the creator's fault,
since
>  > this is a herculean task).
>
> I'm glad that you realize that. The claims of "cherry picking" and

> selecting words "willy-nilly" have been almost insults to me
> because I  (and certainly Leo Moser and Dana Nutter as well) have
put a
> lot of time and effort on finding lexical commonalities between
tens of
> languages.  In addition to a pile of dictionaries it requires
linguistic
> knowledge about different languages.

That's true.  One of the reasons Sasxsek development has been moving
so slowly is because I am taking my time in choosing the vocabulary,
and have even done a lot of shifting things around as I find better
ways of organizing it.  As far as Sasxsek goes, don't expect precise
semantic parallels.  The "real" words used are chosen because of
their familiarity though the semantic scope in Sasxsek is likely to
be narrower, wider or shifted from that of the source language.


> It's a herculean task and that's why it should be divided to
humanly
> manageable parts. I call for team work. Dave, I have the
impression that
> you know Korean and Japanese pretty well. You could widen your
scope and
> study also Chinese (Mandarin and Cantonese at least) and
Vietnamese and
> find lexical commonalities in the East Asian languages. All found
> similarities would be very potential candidates to be words in
Pandunia.



>
>  > Quick example: let's say a wordlang creator decides that
> the Turkish
>  > word denizci for sailor is perfect, and now that's the word
they're
>  > going to use. The thing is though, denizci comes from deniz for
sea
>  > and ci as an occupational suffix. But ci and deniz aren't
> going to be
>  > included, perhaps sea will be something like mare instead.
> Now we have
>  > to learn two words where in the original language you only
> needed to
>  > know one.
>  > Or it could be the other way around, where deniz is chosen
> as the word
>  > for sea but saylor is used for sailor. Neither method is
easier,
>  > neither method allows the student to get into a system where he
can
>  > construct his own words. The only way to do this is to adopt an
>  > Esperanto or Ido-like approach, where words are put into the
>  > language's system and take on a life of their own (denizero,
>  > denizisto, denizala, denize, etc.). I think that's a fine way
to do
>  > it, but somehow I doubt that's what wordlangers have in mind.
>
> I don't know why, Dave, but apparently you think that we, the
> worldlangers, are idiots when it comes to word-formation. Maybe
the
> problem is that you haven't studied the worldlangs. If you
> studied them,  you'd notice that they are fine pieces of work also

> grammatically. For example in Neo Patwa the words for professions
are formed
> regularly by suffixing -yan (person). So sailor could be
"moana-yan" (sea
> person) or "kapal-yan" (ship person). In Pandunia it would be
"nave-jan"
> (ship-person). "Nave" comes not only from the European  languages
(e.g.
> Italian "nave") but also from the Indo-Aryan languages (e.g. Hindi

> "nav"). "Jan" (pronounced the same as NP "yan") comes from
Cantonese
> (it's the same word as Mandarin "ren" but easier to pronounce).
> Suffixing a real word like "person" is of course simpler than
using a
> dedicated suffix such as -ist or -ero.

The only thing here is that suffixes like "-ist", "-ero" or whatever
don't mean "person" but specifiy some specific type relationship to
the verb they are attached to.  It's not just enough to say
something like "law-person" which could be an attorney, a policeman,
a judge or maybe even a legislator.

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January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
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July 2002, Week 1
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June 2002, Week 1
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May 2002, Week 1
April 2002, Week 5
April 2002, Week 4
April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
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March 2002, Week 4
March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 1
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February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
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January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
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December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
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September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
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July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
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May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
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March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
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February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
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October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
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September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
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April 2000, Week 3
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April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
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December 1999, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 5
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December 1998, Week 3
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November 1998, Week 1
October 1998, Week 5
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October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
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June 1998, Week 3
June 1998, Week 2
June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
May 1998, Week 4
May 1998, Week 3
May 1998, Week 2
May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
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March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 5
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
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February 1998, Week 1
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January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
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December 1997, Week 3
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March 1997, Week 1
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February 1997, Week 1

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