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AUXLANG Home

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AUXLANG  October 2007, Week 5

AUXLANG October 2007, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Why cross-linguistic world auxiliary language?

From:

Risto Kupsala <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 1 Nov 2007 00:08:30 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (80 lines)

Dave MacLeod wrote:
 >> In plain figures about 25% of the world's population speak European
 >> languages and about 11% speak the Romance languages. Obviously it
 >> doesn't make much sense to base the future world language on such
 >> minorities. By comparison it would make as much or more sense to base
 >> the language only on the Indo-Aryan languages (14%) or on the Chinese
 >> languages (20%) if we disregard their more limited geographical
 >> distribution.
 >
 > Yes, it does make as much sense, by which I mean I'd be willing to
 > learn a language based on only these languages if it used a
 > streamlined system similar to the ones used in those languages, in the
 > same way that 'Euroclones' imitate those in western European
 > languages.

I'd be willing to learn such languages too because I'm a language 
enthusiast. I have played with the idea of making a Pan-African IAL, a 
Uralic-Altaic IAL and a Sinitic IAL but I haven't put too much time to 
them because each of them would require as much research as what I'm 
currently putting to Pandunia, just on a more detailed scale. All of 
them would be interesting, but the important question is, would the 
creation of any such languages bring us any closer to the real target, 
the *global* IAL?

 > Generally the more source languages you use the more the
 > language becomes simply a collection of words (that the creator(s)
 > likely has little understanding of. Not the creator's fault, since
 > this is a herculean task).

I'm glad that you realize that. The claims of "cherry picking" and 
selecting words "willy-nilly" have been almost insults to me because I 
(and certainly Leo Moser and Dana Nutter as well) have put a lot of time 
and effort on finding lexical commonalities between tens of languages. 
In addition to a pile of dictionaries it requires linguistic knowledge 
about different languages.

It's a herculean task and that's why it should be divided to humanly 
manageable parts. I call for team work. Dave, I have the impression that 
you know Korean and Japanese pretty well. You could widen your scope and 
study also Chinese (Mandarin and Cantonese at least) and Vietnamese and 
find lexical commonalities in the East Asian languages. All found 
similarities would be very potential candidates to be words in Pandunia.

 > Quick example: let's say a wordlang creator decides that the Turkish
 > word denizci for sailor is perfect, and now that's the word they're
 > going to use. The thing is though, denizci comes from deniz for sea
 > and ci as an occupational suffix. But ci and deniz aren't going to be
 > included, perhaps sea will be something like mare instead. Now we have
 > to learn two words where in the original language you only needed to
 > know one.
 > Or it could be the other way around, where deniz is chosen as the word
 > for sea but saylor is used for sailor. Neither method is easier,
 > neither method allows the student to get into a system where he can
 > construct his own words. The only way to do this is to adopt an
 > Esperanto or Ido-like approach, where words are put into the
 > language's system and take on a life of their own (denizero,
 > denizisto, denizala, denize, etc.). I think that's a fine way to do
 > it, but somehow I doubt that's what wordlangers have in mind.

I don't know why, Dave, but apparently you think that we, the 
worldlangers, are idiots when it comes to word-formation. Maybe the 
problem is that you haven't studied the worldlangs. If you studied them, 
you'd notice that they are fine pieces of work also grammatically. For 
example in Neo Patwa the words for professions are formed regularly by 
suffixing -yan (person). So sailor could be "moana-yan" (sea person) or 
"kapal-yan" (ship person). In Pandunia it would be "nave-jan" 
(ship-person). "Nave" comes not only from the European languages (e.g. 
Italian "nave") but also from the Indo-Aryan languages (e.g. Hindi 
"nav"). "Jan" (pronounced the same as NP "yan") comes from Cantonese 
(it's the same word as Mandarin "ren" but easier to pronounce). 
Suffixing a real word like "person" is of course simpler than using a 
dedicated suffix such as -ist or -ero.

-- 
Risto Kupsala
http://www.kupsala.net/risto

Pandunia - a cross-cultural IAL
http://www.kupsala.net/risto/pandunia/

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December 1997, Week 5
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