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CONLANG  October 2007, Week 5

CONLANG October 2007, Week 5

Subject:

Re: elision

From:

Scotto Hlad <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:19:17 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (74 lines)

My original plan was not to allow geminates but found that it lost something
and I have been using them now, so that wouldn't be a problem. The 'd'
sounds quite real to me as well.

Guess I have to keep saying the phrase to see what happens with my mouth.
One of the most unfortunate parts of conlanging is that one rarely gets to
hear his/her language spoken unless it is recorded and played back. For me I
want to enunciate everything perfectly so I miss out on this "real" way of
speaking.
S

-----Original Message-----
From: Constructed Languages List [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of R A Brown
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2007 12:16 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: elision

Scotto Hlad wrote:
> Recently, in response to another thread, I posted a Regimonti idiom:
>
> Les buves se en rapoti = the cows have hurried (themselves)
>
> I have omitted the grave accents in "se" and in "en". If you enunciate
> each word the phrase is pronounced as follows:
>
> 1. /les/ /'bu.ves/ /sE/  /En/ /r`a.'pO.ti/
>
> (hoping to the nearest conlang deity that I got all the xsampa right)
>
> Sadly trying to spit that out at normal speed, one would end up with
> an unattractive glottal stop between the two /E/s
>
> 2.  /les/ /'bu.ves/ /sE?En/ /r`a.'pO.ti/
>
> (which sorta sounds like the speaker is clearing his/her throat)

Or like a Britisher saying 'setten'   :)

>
> If one says that at normal speed, the "se" and "en" would no doubt run
> together so that it would be said,

Agree absolutely,

> 3. /les/ /'bu.ves/ /sEn/ /r`a.'pO.ti/
>
> The problem for me arises in that following an /n/ with an /r'/
> requires a bit of oral gymnastics and it would seem to me that either
> the /n/ or the /r`/ would disappear in the process:

It does.
----------------------------------
Mark J. Reed wrote:
 > I would guess that the E would be nasalized and the [n] would drop.

That is indeed one possibility, adopted in many natlangs.

In Latin in similar situations the /n/ becomes assimilated so that /n/+/r/
--> /rr/. That is possible, of course, only if a language allows geminate
consonants.

The other 'solution' often adopted in natlangs is to insert an intrusive /d/
between the two consonants. We find that often in ancient Greek, e.g.
_aneer_ (man, adult male) has accusative _andra_ <-- *anra.

--
Ray
==================================
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Entia non sunt multiplicanda
praeter necessitudinem.

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