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CONLANG  October 2007, Week 5

CONLANG October 2007, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Translating _engelang_ into Swedish (and German)

From:

Jörg Rhiemeier <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:16:21 +0100

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (102 lines)

Hallo!

On Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:19:37 +0100, Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:

> Sometimes Language smiles upon the translator, as when
> Swedish _konstspråk_ can be a shortening for any or all of
> _konstruerat språk_ 'constructed language', _konstgjort
> språk_ 'artificial language' and _konstnärligt språk_
> 'artistic language', 

You need a way to tell the two apart - not all conlangs are
artlangs :)  It is similar in German, where the usual term for
'constructed language' is _künstliche Sprache_ (lit. 'artificial
language').  This is sometimes abbreviated as _Kunstsprache_,
which, however, could also be interpreted to mean _künstlerische
Sprache_ 'artistic language', though this term is uncommon (well,
most people have no idea of 'artlangs' anyway).

>        but when it comes to translating 
> 'engelang' this feature becomes a bug, because the normal
> Swedish translation for 'engineered' is _konstruerad_! :-(

The German translation, likewise, is _konstruiert_, or the
longish _ingenieurmäßig konstruiert_ - far too unwieldy.

> None of the possible alternatives suggested by the
> thesaurus really works: _planerad_ 'planned',

_Plansprache_ 'planned language' is an established term in
German, but usually confined to auxlangs.

>       _designad_ 
> 'designed', _reglerad_ 'regulated', 

A _regulierte Sprache_ is a 'regulated language', i. e.
a *natlang* that has been subjected to standardization by
a language academy or something similar.

>       _regelbunden_ 
> 'regularly patterned' all have actual or potential
> different and inappropriate meanings in conlanging or
> linguistics.

_Regelgebunden_ means something like 'rule-governed' in
German - but which language is *not* governed by rules? :)

>       _Schematisk_ 'schematic' has the same 
> connotations of 'sketchy' as in English.

_Schematisch_ is used in German interlingustics to characterize
auxlangs with a strictly regular, a priori grammar, like Esperanto.
Its antonym is _naturalistisch_.  The connotation of 'sketchy'
exists, but the main connotation is one of strict regularity and
simplicity.

> _Programmatisk_ 'programmatic' is tempting, but the implicit
> shortening _programspråk_ is too close to
> _programmeringsspråk_ 'programming language',

Yes, it comes dangerously close.

>      and I have 
> indeed heard youngsters use it with that meaning, although
> at least to my native speaker intuition 'language regulated
> by a programme' is an at least equally plausible meaning for
> _programspråk_ as 'language used for programming' -- as
> would IIANM 'program language' in English. Besides as the
> standard word for 'language used for programming' is
> _programmeringsspråk_, assigning another meaning to
> _programspråk_ might even be a Good Thing.

In German, at least, _Programm_ has the meanings:

1. A set of instructions for a computer.
2. The timetable of a theater, a TV station, a cultural event, etc.
3. The list of items obtainable from a vendor.
4. An artistic or political manifesto.

_Programmsprache_ would probably be understood to mean the same as
_Programmiersprache_ 'programming language'.

> Another possibility, though superficially similar to
> _schematiskt språk_ is _schemaspråk_ which would rather
> mean 'language created according to a scheme' -- again
> similar to how 'scheme language' would probably differ from
> 'schematic language' in English --, which makes it somewhat
> appealing in a jumble of problematic options.

In German, at least, _Schemasprache_ and _schematische Sprache_
are quite serviceable, I think, though they could be misunderstood
as meaning 'sketchy language'.

> So I'm down to two not so crappy options _programspråk_ and
> _schemaspråk_. I guess all non- English Germanic languages
> would have similar terminological difficulties, so comments
> from German, Dutch, Danish and Norwegian speakers would be
> most welcome.

I'd say that _schemaspråk_ is the better option than _programspråk_.

... brought to you by the Weeping Elf

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