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AUXLANG  November 2007, Week 1

AUXLANG November 2007, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Starting a new language

From:

steve rice <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 2 Nov 2007 15:55:19 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (104 lines)

--- Bruce Gilson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On     Thu, 1 Nov 2007 11:24:52 -0700,  James
> Chandler <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:

[major cut]

> >I think that going into a new project with the -r
> as a
> >given would be a mistake.  Might another member of
> the
> >team not come up with a better solution?
> 
> And if so, I would welcome it. Nobody did in 1997,
> and I doubt that anyone
> will in 2007.
> 
> >Fwiw my choice of POS marker for verbs would be -a.
> 
> Not possible! -a already has a use: the marker of
> the feminine.

This is the funadamental distinction between J and
you: he would've said -a marked the feminine in
*nouns*. His idea was that nouns and verbs are
fundamentally different things; you seem to view them
in a more Esperantic way, as things that can be
bridged with only a very small step. So for J, having
the same vowels used for different purposes by the two
categories wasn't an issue.
 
> >That would generalize the existing default ending
> and
> >avoids the shortcomings (as I see it) of the -r.
> 
> You see shortcomings in -r. I do not. In fact, I
> find it such a perfect
> solution that I challenge anyone to find a good
> reason (as opposed to "I
> don't like the look of it") for NOT using -r.

I suppose being overrun with pirates isn't a problem
for you...
 
[another large cut] 
 
> >All I would say, Bruce, is that I can't see this -r
> >flying.  I say the same thing to the Espists about
> >their -j.  Do they listen?
> 
> There is nothing in common between the -j of
> Esperanto and this -r. While -j
> corresponds to nothing in any modern language but
> ancient Greek, -r IS in
> use in many modern languages (French, Spanish, and
> Portuguese for the
> infinitive, Scandinavian languages for the
> present-tense form). The argument
> against -j is clear; there IS NO sensible argument
> excpt that it looks funny
> to James Chandler (and some others) against the -r.
> NOT A SINGLE point has
> EVER been raised against -r except "I don't like
> it"!)

How about this, then: it's redundant. In Novial as in
Occ, to some extent, -e is the "ghost" ending of the
consonant stem. And -a is the catchall ending for
verbs. By adding -r to verb stems, you're marking them
once for derivation (the vowel) and again for POS.

Also, to the Romance speakers you mention, -r does
sound like an infinitive, which means "me pensar" will
sound, especially to an hispanophone, like something a
B-movie Indian would say. There is a political
dimension.
 
> >I can't see a future in which the whole world is
> going "oj aj ojn ajn ujn",
> it
> >just doesn't seem like a credible scenario.  If I
> can
> >say that to the Espists, why can't I say the same
> >thing about the -r?
> 
> Surely you can say it. The problem is justifying
> what you say. I can say
> nobody is ever going to vote for Hillary Clinton
> (how I wish this were so!)
> but it would be just my feelings. As I said, nobody
> has ever given any
> reason NOT to use the -r except "I don't like it."

Perhaps if we have her give an opinion on this topic
in the next debate, that will shut her down!

Steve

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