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AUXLANG  November 2007, Week 1

AUXLANG November 2007, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Why cross-linguistic world auxiliary language?

From:

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Reply-To:

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Date:

Sat, 3 Nov 2007 14:43:16 -0400

Content-Type:

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text/plain (104 lines)

> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of MacLeod Dave
> > That's what an auxlang is about though.  It's about everyone
> > learning a single way to speak and write.  There's nothing wrong
> > with a derivational system like E-o's.  It works well, and it's
easy
> > to learn.
>
> That's pretty much what I was saying. E-o works well because of
its
> derivational system. Somehow I doubt wordlangers are aiming for
> something like that though.

Sasxsek has borrowed a lot of it's word building from the
Esperanto/Ido system of suffixes though there aren't nearly as many.


Vorlin could also be termed a "worldlang" and it incorporates POS
markers though I never quite cared for its distinct markers for
transitive and intransitive verbs.

> > Purism is fine if you are speaking about a natural language like
> > Japanese because those "foreign" words tend to make the whole
system
> > irregular, but by your argument, you may as well eliminate the
> > Sinitic vocabulary from Japanese too.  The problem isn't that
the
> > labels for these concepts come from English or Chinese.  The
issue
> > is that the language already had its own labels for these things
in
> > the first place, or at least a system to create them.
>
> No, sinitic vocabulary is as well integrated into Japanese as
Latin is
> to English. English is not. There's a certain critical mass of
> loanwords needed before people are able to start understanding and
> using the derivational system of the language that the loanwords
are
> all from. If English tomorrow started using a few Japanese words
like
> kokusai for international and denwa for telephone it would only
> confuse things. But if English were to take in a few thousand
people
> would start to realize that kokusai is the koku in kokunai, that
denwa
> is the den in denki and wa the wa in kaiwa, and so on.

Actually the issue isn't how well suited Sinitic vocabulary is for
Japanese.  It's just been there longer and therefore the words and
the language have both had a chance to conform to each other,
whereas the English vocabulary is still fairly recent.

Latin really doesn't integrate well into English, it's just that we
are so accustomed to it that we don't really think much about it.
Ideally English would be a lot cleaner if we tossed out most of the
Latin, French and Greek influences leaving a pure Anglo-Saxon flavor
to it.  One of the things I always liked about German was that it
maintained a lot of its purity though in the past 50-60 years you
can see where the lexicon is now becoming flooded with English and
French words that break up that nice system.


> > Unfortuately, when people here talk about "words" they usually
refer
> > to specific labels given to identify a concept.  Labels are only
> > labels.  Where the label comes from isn't really relevant except
> > that familar labels are easier to memorize so a mix of labels
from
> > popular languages means everyone has some familiar labels and
some
> > unfamiliar ones to deal with.  Choosing labels entirely from one
> > source means giving one small group an easy learning path and
> > ignoring the needs of the rest.  The only other method would be
an a
> > priori system, which would certainly be the most neutral but
also
> > the most difficult for everyone.
> >
> No, choosing from one source gives the language a logical base
that
> allows people to guess at the meaning of words they don't know,
and to
> create new words when necessary without having to consult a few
dozen
> other languages before deciding on which word is most fair.
> And once again, similar vocabulary to one's native language does
NOT
> equal ease of learning. I can provide endless examples of why this
is
> the case. Also, ever wondered why Kjell's English is better than
his
> Danish? (or so he says)

Choosing from one source would be great if it's a source that
everyone knows, but the reality is not everyone does.

I'm not advocating someone consult a bunch of dictionaries to find a
"fair" word.  The only source they should have to consult would be
the dictionary for the auxlang itself.  New words should ideally be
created by compounding or derivation using the existing morpheme
base.  Unique concepts like those related to religion and such could
simply be taken in as calqued from their language of origin, or
fully assimilated if the calque is too idiomatic.

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