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CONLANG  November 2007, Week 3

CONLANG November 2007, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Bootstrapping a cooperative conlang

From:

Gary Shannon <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 18 Nov 2007 21:11:24 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (77 lines)

--- Herman Miller <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

<snip>
> 
> So is the intended purpose of this system a way of documenting the 
> various usages of a word in a particular variety of language? Or are 
> there various parts of the definition that explain how the meaning of 
> the word varies over time and in different dialects?
>

If by "system" you mean NSM, then I suppose that is the purpose.

If by "system" you mean the collaborative conlang system I'm trying to build
then most emphatically NO. What I have in mind is "growing" a new conlang by a
process that complete novices could participate in. After all natlangs were not
invented by linguists, but by common folk talking about common things. I'd like
to grow a conlang that way by letting linguistically naive people collaborate
as well.
 
<snip>

> If you've identified a group of potential collaborators who are all 
> familiar with Wierzbicka's work, and who have the time and level of 
> interest to write definitions in that style for all the words you're 
> going to need, that could be an interesting thing to try. I just think 
> that having to learn a technical set of words for basic meanings, and 
> how to use them, is likely to be intimidating to just about anyone who 
> might want to participate.

Heaven forbid that contributors would have to be familiar with something that
esoteric!

> Say that you want to define a word "fur" to use in your definition of 
> "mouse". Looking at the semantic primitives, I don't really have much of 
> a clue where to start. Probably "fur" is too high a level and it needs 
> to be broken down into something like "dense hair", where "dense" could 
> ultimately be built from "near" and "touching" and "many/much" in some 
> way. There's still a big gap between the semantic primitives and 
> something as fundamental for animal definitions as "hair".
> 

"hair" and "fur" would probably end up being illustrated with a picture, or
roughly described as "warm, fluffy animal covering", or "stuff that grows on
top of people's heads", accompanied by a picture.

<snip>
> An illustrated index of defined words would be useful, but if 
> you've got that, the illustrations alone might be a better place to 
> start with.

Absolutely! Pictures will play a big role in the process for every word that
can possibly be defined by a picture. My preliminary dictionary database
http://fiziwig.com/tazhi/view_def.php already has the ability to assign images
to words. 

> Say that someone wants a word for "guitar" -- you first need definitions 
> for words like "string", "fret", and various other parts of the 
> instrument, along with a description of the general shape and size. Or 
> you could just take a picture of a guitar and upload it. Then if there's 
> enough interest that it becomes important whether a ukulele or a banjo 
> falls under the definition of "guitar", there could be a discussion 
> which ends up producing a more detailed definition.

First of all, a picture of a guitar would all that is needed. Secondly, the
last thing I want is an in-depth discussion of how to define "guitar". After
all, the purpose of the project is to have all discussions IN the new conlang,
not ABOUT the new conlang. All I want is for someone learning the language to
know what "guitar" means. How they get to that knowing should be simple,
straightforward and practical, and understandable at a glance by the
linguistically naive. 

In other words, I don't need to tell anyone what a guitar IS, I assume they
already know that. I just need them to learn the WORD for the THING they are
already familiar with.

--gary

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