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AUXLANG  March 2008, Week 4

AUXLANG March 2008, Week 4

Subject:

Re: A free Auxlang blog?

From:

steve rice <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:51:31 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (131 lines)

--- [log in to unmask] wrote:

> > [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> steve rice
> 
> > > I don't see much problem with the closed
> syllables. 
> > > Those that have
> > > problems could always put a vowel on the end
> like
> > > the stereotypical
> > > Italian speaking English.  Even nasals can be an
> > > issue for some
> > > speakers who will tend to nasalize the preceding
> > > vowel and omit the
> > > consonant.
> > 
> > When Rex and I were discussing EBCs offlist
> recently,
> > that was one of the minor differences that
> emerged: I
> > would write "guda," but he would use "gud." I
> don't
> > like allowing non-standard final vowels, because
> it
> > marks those who use them. This is also why I
> dislike
> > inserting "buffer" (epenthetic) vowels: as a
> child, I
> > had a mild stuttering problem, and I'm a bit
> sensitive
> > on pronunciation.
> 
> The thing is that epenthesis happens across
> languages anyway when
> loanwords are introduced.  Making a language based
> solely on the
> CV(N) modem leaves the language a bit monotonous and
> shapeless too.
> Have a more flexible wordshape gives each word
> something more unique
> to listen to rather than just a chattering which is
> harder to parse.

There are V-initial words in Linu, at least, and
technically it has consonant clusters; you can just
simplify them as desired. I do like languages like
Volapuk; I just don't think they're wise as auxlangs.

> My loglang though is mainly CV(N) though I will have
> a few
> multisyllabic roots for less-common concepts.  I'm
> thinking they
> would best be identified by creating some type of
> cluster like
> CVCCV(N) or CCVCV(N), yes like Lojban's gismu, but
> my system has no
> allomorphs.

The allomrophs are one of my issues with Lojban. When
Loglan was being designed, it was supposed to have
largely invariant forms that would combine by
juxtaposition. When a phrase became sufficiently
common, it would be jammed together into a new
predicate word. But it soon became clear that such
compounds were going to be much more common than
originally imagined--I still wish Dr. Brown would've
learned Eo before starting Loglan--so they came up
with the allomorphs as a way to regularize existing
compounds.

When the Lojbanists broke off, instead of doing the
obvious thing and starting with a proper derivational
system, they simply copied Loglan's retrofit. 
 
> > > The C+l or C+r leave a few weird possiblities
> too
> > > because /tr/ can
> > > sound at lot like /t_S/.  I've even heard that
> the
> > > Vietnamese name
> > > <tran> is actually the Chinese <chan> but with a
> > > different
> > > Romanization.  
> > 
> > One of my linguistics professors--the one I had
> for
> > Phonetics and Phonemics, in fact--insisted that in
> US
> > English, [tr] was actually /t_Sr/. I still
> consider
> > that an idiolect issue. Besides, I'm not really
> into
> > phonetics and phonemics anyway: it makes you crazy
> > trying to hear people that accurately.
> 
> I know, but these easily confused combinations to
> need to be taken
> into account. 

I don't think [Sr] will crop up much in contrast with
[tr], however. And even where it does (tread, trill)
the forms generated (cwed/twed, cwil/twil) would be
distinct.
 
> > Very good! As I've said before, I consider Ingli
> the
> > big deal, though I'd also like to see the loglang.
> 
> They're both still in the very early stages.  There
> are things about
> Ingli that I just haven't been able to decide like
> the final /l/ and
> some lexical issues because I am using some WENSA
> vocabulary where
> it is also commonly known to anglophones.  For
> example "un" or maybe
> "uni" (one) instead of "wan".
> 
I provisionally accept "wan." The tricky part was
"three" and "tree," but I'm going with "twe" and
"twi," respectively. The idea is to use a
Spanish-based root when I run into trouble.

Steve


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