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AUXLANG  March 2008, Week 4

AUXLANG March 2008, Week 4

Subject:

Word formation in Espo and Ido

From:

MacLeod Dave <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Wed, 26 Mar 2008 23:55:30 +0900

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (160 lines)

An Esperantist just asked a question on Idolisto that received a
really detailed answer so I thought I'd post it here.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/idolisto/message/17008

First the question:

-----Mensagem original-----
De: [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]] Em nome de **
Enviada: quarta-feira, 26 de Março de 2008 7:52
Para: [log in to unmask]
Assunto: [ido] personigo de adjektivoj

Cxu povas iu klarigi al mi, kio estas en Ido la koresponda formativo
por "-ul" de Esperanto? (temas pri formativo, kiu kreas el adjektivoj
ne konkrete masklan sekson, sed simple "estajxon": verda: verdulo;
kara: karulo)?

Mi scias pri la finigxo "-u", ke gxi povas tion servi. Cxu tio estas
vero?

Antaudanke
Laszlo




Then the response:




RE: [ido] personigo de adjektivoj

Kara Laszlo,

En Ido existas nula sufixo samrola e samvalora kam la Esperanto-sufixo -ul-.
Pro to on mustas rekursar ad altra moyeni por tradukar ad Ido
Esperanto-vorti kontenanta ta sufixo.

Generale on povas agar lo per:

1) Uzar nula sufixo.
2) Uzar altra sufixo.
3) Uzar altra radiko.

Yen plu detaloze pri singla kazo:

1) On uzas nula sufixo kande de adjektival radiko on derivas substantiva
vorto indikanta individuo:

blanka > blanko (Eo: blanka > blankulo)
grosa > groso (Eo: dika > dikulo)
bela > belo (Eo: bela > belulo)

Lo sama kande de adjektiva-substantiva plurradiko on derivas substantiva
vorto indikanta individuo:

redpelo = individuo di qua la pelo esas reda (Eo: rugh-hautulo)
blukasko = individuo karakterizata per portar blua kasko (Eo: blukaskulo)
longnazo = individuo di qua la nazo esas longa (Eo: longnazulo)

Tamen oportas dicar ke en Ido existas la sufixo -ul-, uzata nur por indikar
maskula individui. Konseque, de singla vorto supere mencionita on povas e
darfas derivar korespondanta ul-vorto: blankulo, grosulo, belulo, redpelulo,
blukaskulo, longnazulo.

Teoriale e praktikale existas difero inter Ido-vorto quala "belulo" e la
samforma e sampronunca Esperanto-vorto "belulo". En Ido on povas indikar
bela viro per "belo" o "belulo", kontre ke en Esperanto on mustas dicar
"belulo", pro ke "belo" havas altra senco. Pro to, "belulo" esas min frequa
en Ido kam en Esperanto, nam maxim-multa-kaze on ne volas o ne bezonas
indikar la sexuo dil koncernata individuo.


2) On uzas altra sufixo kande de substantival o verbal radiko on derivas
substantiva vorto indikanta individuo. La uzenda sufixo dependas del senco
dil derivota vorto. Generale:

a) On uzas la sufixo -oz- kande la derivota vorto indikas individuo
posedanta la kozo indikata dal radiko:

barbo > barbozo (Eo: barbo > barbulo)
vertebro > vertebrozo (Eo: vertebro > vertebrulo)
famo > famozo (Eo: famo > famulo)

b) On uzas la sufixo -an- kande la derivota vorto indikas adepto dil kozo
indikata dal radiko:

herezio > hereziano (Eo: herezo > herezulo)

c) On uzas la sufixo -ik- kande la derivota vorto indikas individuo malada
per la kozo indikata dal radiko:

ftizio > ftiziiko (Eo: ftizo > ftizulo)
lepro > lepriko (Eo: lepro > leprulo)

d) On uzas la sufixo -er- kande la derivota vorto indikas individuo qua
kustumale okupas su per la kozo indikata dal radiko:

reptar > reptero (Eo: rampi > rampulo)
flatar > flatero (Eo: flati > flatulo)
drinkar > drinkero (Eo: drinki > drinkulo)

Vice -er- on povas uzar la sufiko -em-, kande on volas indikar individuo
inklinita o tendencanta al kozo indikata dal radiko. Do la "drinkulo" de Eo
povas esar "drinkemo" o "drinkero" en Ido, segun la senco. Evidente, en Eo
on darfas uzar "drinkemulo" por precizigar, ma ofte on omisas la sufixo
-em-.

e) On uzas la sufixo -ier- kande la derivota vorto indikas individuo
portanta (mem se nur metafore) la kozo indikata dal radiko:

miliono > milioniero (Eo: miliono > milionulo)
kuraso > kurasiero (Eo: kiraso > kirasulo)
rento > rentiero (Eo: rento > rentulo)

f) On uzas la sufixo -ari- kande la derivota vorto indikas individuo a qua
destinesas la kozo indikata dal radiko:

pensiono > pensionario (Eo: pensio > pensiulo)

g) En rara kazi on mustas uzar du sufixi:

adreso > adresizar > adresizario (Eo: adreso > adresulo)

3) En sat multa kazi on uzas altraradika vorto, kun o sen sufixo:

"inferioro" (Eo: subulo) derivesas ne de "sub" ma de "inferiora" (Eo:
subula)
"superioro" (Eo: superulo) derivesas ne de "super" ma de "superiora" (Eo:
superula)
"mendikero" (Eo: almozulo) derivesas ne de "almono" (E: almozo) ma de
"mendikar" (Eo: almozpeti)
"adverso" (Eo: kontrauulo) derivesas ne de "kontre" (E: kontrau) ma de
"adversa" (Eo: kontrauula)
"mamifero" (Eo: mamulo) derivesas ne de "mamo" ma de "mamifera" (Eo: mamula)
edc

La finalo -u, quan vu mencionas en vua mesajo, esas ne sufixo ma nur
pronomala dezinenco:

singla > singlu (= singla individuo)
omna > omnu (= omna individuo)
nula > nulu (= nula individuo)

Ol esas adjuntebla nur a pronomi. Konseque, vorti quala *belu, *altu, edc ne
esas korekta en Ido (quankam plura eminenti ja pledis por tala uzo, en la
frua periodo di Ido e mem pose).

Kordiale,

Gonçalo Neves




-- 
http://idistaro.com

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January 2004, Week 3
January 2004, Week 2
January 2004, Week 1
December 2003, Week 5
December 2003, Week 4
December 2003, Week 3
December 2003, Week 2
December 2003, Week 1
November 2003, Week 5
November 2003, Week 4
November 2003, Week 3
November 2003, Week 2
November 2003, Week 1
October 2003, Week 5
October 2003, Week 4
October 2003, Week 3
October 2003, Week 2
October 2003, Week 1
September 2003, Week 5
September 2003, Week 4
September 2003, Week 3
September 2003, Week 2
September 2003, Week 1
August 2003, Week 5
August 2003, Week 4
August 2003, Week 3
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August 2003, Week 1
July 2003, Week 5
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July 2003, Week 3
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July 2003, Week 1
June 2003, Week 5
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June 2003, Week 1
May 2003, Week 5
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May 2003, Week 1
April 2003, Week 5
April 2003, Week 4
April 2003, Week 3
April 2003, Week 2
March 2003, Week 5
March 2003, Week 4
March 2003, Week 3
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March 2003, Week 1
February 2003, Week 4
February 2003, Week 3
February 2003, Week 2
February 2003, Week 1
January 2003, Week 5
January 2003, Week 4
January 2003, Week 3
January 2003, Week 2
January 2003, Week 1
December 2002, Week 5
December 2002, Week 4
December 2002, Week 3
December 2002, Week 2
December 2002, Week 1
November 2002, Week 4
November 2002, Week 3
November 2002, Week 2
November 2002, Week 1
October 2002, Week 5
October 2002, Week 4
October 2002, Week 3
October 2002, Week 2
October 2002, Week 1
September 2002, Week 5
September 2002, Week 4
September 2002, Week 3
September 2002, Week 2
September 2002, Week 1
August 2002, Week 5
August 2002, Week 4
August 2002, Week 3
August 2002, Week 2
August 2002, Week 1
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July 2002, Week 2
July 2002, Week 1
June 2002, Week 5
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June 2002, Week 3
June 2002, Week 2
June 2002, Week 1
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April 2002, Week 5
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April 2002, Week 3
April 2002, Week 2
April 2002, Week 1
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March 2002, Week 3
March 2002, Week 1
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February 2002, Week 2
February 2002, Week 1
January 2002, Week 5
January 2002, Week 4
January 2002, Week 3
January 2002, Week 2
January 2002, Week 1
December 2001, Week 5
December 2001, Week 4
December 2001, Week 3
December 2001, Week 2
December 2001, Week 1
November 2001, Week 5
November 2001, Week 4
November 2001, Week 3
November 2001, Week 2
November 2001, Week 1
October 2001, Week 5
October 2001, Week 4
October 2001, Week 3
October 2001, Week 2
October 2001, Week 1
September 2001, Week 5
September 2001, Week 4
September 2001, Week 3
September 2001, Week 2
September 2001, Week 1
August 2001, Week 5
August 2001, Week 4
August 2001, Week 3
August 2001, Week 2
August 2001, Week 1
July 2001, Week 5
July 2001, Week 4
July 2001, Week 3
July 2001, Week 2
July 2001, Week 1
June 2001, Week 5
June 2001, Week 4
June 2001, Week 3
June 2001, Week 2
June 2001, Week 1
May 2001, Week 5
May 2001, Week 4
May 2001, Week 3
May 2001, Week 2
May 2001, Week 1
April 2001, Week 5
April 2001, Week 4
April 2001, Week 3
April 2001, Week 2
April 2001, Week 1
March 2001, Week 5
March 2001, Week 4
March 2001, Week 3
March 2001, Week 2
March 2001, Week 1
February 2001, Week 4
February 2001, Week 3
February 2001, Week 2
February 2001, Week 1
January 2001, Week 5
January 2001, Week 4
January 2001, Week 3
January 2001, Week 2
January 2001, Week 1
December 2000, Week 5
December 2000, Week 4
December 2000, Week 3
December 2000, Week 2
December 2000, Week 1
November 2000, Week 5
November 2000, Week 4
November 2000, Week 3
November 2000, Week 2
November 2000, Week 1
October 2000, Week 5
October 2000, Week 4
October 2000, Week 3
October 2000, Week 2
October 2000, Week 1
September 2000, Week 5
September 2000, Week 4
September 2000, Week 3
September 2000, Week 2
September 2000, Week 1
August 2000, Week 5
August 2000, Week 4
August 2000, Week 3
August 2000, Week 2
August 2000, Week 1
July 2000, Week 5
July 2000, Week 4
July 2000, Week 3
July 2000, Week 2
July 2000, Week 1
June 2000, Week 5
June 2000, Week 4
June 2000, Week 3
June 2000, Week 2
June 2000, Week 1
May 2000, Week 5
May 2000, Week 4
May 2000, Week 3
May 2000, Week 2
May 2000, Week 1
April 2000, Week 5
April 2000, Week 4
April 2000, Week 3
April 2000, Week 2
April 2000, Week 1
March 2000, Week 5
March 2000, Week 4
March 2000, Week 3
March 2000, Week 2
March 2000, Week 1
February 2000, Week 5
February 2000, Week 4
February 2000, Week 3
February 2000, Week 2
February 2000, Week 1
January 2000, Week 5
January 2000, Week 4
January 2000, Week 3
January 2000, Week 2
January 2000, Week 1
December 1999, Week 5
December 1999, Week 4
December 1999, Week 3
December 1999, Week 2
December 1999, Week 1
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November 1999, Week 3
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November 1999, Week 1
October 1999, Week 5
October 1999, Week 4
October 1999, Week 3
October 1999, Week 2
October 1999, Week 1
September 1999, Week 5
September 1999, Week 4
September 1999, Week 3
September 1999, Week 2
September 1999, Week 1
August 1999, Week 5
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August 1999, Week 3
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August 1999, Week 1
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July 1999, Week 4
July 1999, Week 3
July 1999, Week 2
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June 1999, Week 3
June 1999, Week 2
June 1999, Week 1
May 1999, Week 5
May 1999, Week 4
May 1999, Week 3
May 1999, Week 2
May 1999, Week 1
April 1999, Week 5
April 1999, Week 4
April 1999, Week 3
April 1999, Week 2
April 1999, Week 1
March 1999, Week 5
March 1999, Week 4
March 1999, Week 3
March 1999, Week 2
March 1999, Week 1
February 1999, Week 5
February 1999, Week 4
February 1999, Week 3
February 1999, Week 2
February 1999, Week 1
January 1999, Week 5
January 1999, Week 4
January 1999, Week 3
January 1999, Week 2
January 1999, Week 1
December 1998, Week 5
December 1998, Week 4
December 1998, Week 3
December 1998, Week 2
December 1998, Week 1
November 1998, Week 5
November 1998, Week 4
November 1998, Week 3
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October 1998, Week 5
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October 1998, Week 1
September 1998, Week 5
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July 1998, Week 1
June 1998, Week 5
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June 1998, Week 3
June 1998, Week 2
June 1998, Week 1
May 1998, Week 5
May 1998, Week 4
May 1998, Week 3
May 1998, Week 2
May 1998, Week 1
April 1998, Week 5
April 1998, Week 4
April 1998, Week 3
April 1998, Week 2
April 1998, Week 1
March 1998, Week 5
March 1998, Week 4
March 1998, Week 3
March 1998, Week 2
March 1998, Week 1
February 1998, Week 5
February 1998, Week 4
February 1998, Week 3
February 1998, Week 2
February 1998, Week 1
January 1998, Week 5
January 1998, Week 4
January 1998, Week 3
January 1998, Week 2
January 1998, Week 1
December 1997, Week 5
December 1997, Week 4
December 1997, Week 3
December 1997, Week 2
December 1997, Week 1
November 1997, Week 5
November 1997, Week 4
November 1997, Week 3
November 1997, Week 2
November 1997, Week 1
October 1997, Week 5
October 1997, Week 4
October 1997, Week 3
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October 1997, Week 1
September 1997, Week 5
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September 1997, Week 1
August 1997, Week 5
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July 1997, Week 5
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July 1997, Week 1
June 1997, Week 5
June 1997, Week 4
June 1997, Week 3
June 1997, Week 2
June 1997, Week 1
May 1997, Week 5
May 1997, Week 4
May 1997, Week 3
May 1997, Week 2
May 1997, Week 1
April 1997, Week 5
April 1997, Week 4
April 1997, Week 3
April 1997, Week 2
April 1997, Week 1
March 1997, Week 5
March 1997, Week 4
March 1997, Week 3
March 1997, Week 2
March 1997, Week 1
February 1997, Week 5
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February 1997, Week 3
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February 1997, Week 1

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