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AUXLANG  July 2008, Week 2

AUXLANG July 2008, Week 2

Subject:

Re: "one" vs. "a(n)" (< Which natural language deserves our support if any?)

From:

Dmitri Ivanov <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Sat, 12 Jul 2008 09:12:53 -0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (76 lines)

--- In [log in to unmask], Olivier Simon <cafaristeir@...> wrote:
> 
> This is a question about which all auxlangers have already wondered!
> (in sambahsa: "Tom sieyg to ghes")
> When there is already an adverb or an adjective in the sentence that 
> expresses plural or tense, the use of endings can indeed appear
useless. 
> So why not *Tom sayct to ghes  (sayct is here at the present). 
> But, when your sentence no more includes the adverb, you have again
to find 
> something to express the tense. Finally, this is not really a
simplification 
> before you have to remember to use the verb at the required tense when 
> there is no adverb in the sentence. 
> You could reply that this is not a problem for auxlangs that, unlike
sambahsa, 
> can mark tenses only with adverbs. 
> This is the example of novial
> "Tom dikte tum yer" vs "Tom did dikte tum". 
> But this goes against shortness, another principle you strongly
defend! (And 
> that I defend for sambahsa! From the sentence above, you can notice
that 
> sambahsa can even be shorter than English!)

I think it is good to follow the principle of facultative precision in
expressing grammatical meanings, which means that it is not obligatory
to indicate a grammatical meaning if it may be inferred from the
context. So if we generally speak about yesterday's events, there is
no reason to continuously use tense.

> 
> About tones... Of course, what appears to be difficult for
Westerners can be 
> very easy for Chinese people. That's simply a question of relativity...

For me the most difficult thing in Chinese is not tones but
remembering hanzi (I guess it requires a good pictorial thinking).


> Officially, there is no tone (and even no real stress) in French.
But in spoken 
> French, tone is used to differentiate interrogative sentences from
statements. 
> In spoken French "T'as lu le livre." (You've read the book) is
identical to "T'as 
> lu le livre?" (Have you read the book?), but the former is
pronounced with a 
> slight lowering tone, while the latter is pronounced with a rising
tone. (I think 
> that Italian has the same system!).

The same is with Russian. If you say "chainik vskipel" with a rising
tone, then it is a question ("Has the kettle boiled?"). They told me
about a Finnish student who did not use the intonation in the same way
as her Russian colleages. (It is understandable because in Finnish
there is a question particle.) So she came and asked: 
- Chainik vskipel?
But as she did not use the rising tone, nobody answered. So she had to
add:
- Eto vopros. (This is a question).

To avoid such things we have question particles in LdP. One is "ob",
used as in Novial:
- Ob ketla buli? Me bu jan ob ketla buli.
(Is the kettle boiling? I don't know if the kettle is boiling)

Another is "ku" used at the end of a sentence or after the word under
question:
Ketla buli ku? (Is the kettle boiling?)
Ketla ku buli? (Is it the kettle that is boiling?)

Swasti!

Dmitry

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