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AUXLANG  August 2008, Week 5

AUXLANG August 2008, Week 5

Subject:

Re: Vancouver Sun covers Esperanto

From:

deinx nxtxr <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Sun, 31 Aug 2008 21:58:56 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (111 lines)

> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Paul Bartlett

> >> "That will never happen, not with Esperanto, and not with
English,
> >> becausemost people in the world are very happy with their
own
> >> language and theydon't care about people in other
countries."
> 
> I think that this is only partly true.  In a large (physically
and
> population) country such as the USA, people can go almost
their entire
> lifetimes without feeling any need or desire to communicate
or even pay
> attention to any other language but their own (for instance, I
have
> never been outside the USA and Canada), (although Latin
American
> Spanish is making inroads in the USA).  To such people, a
conIAL is
> mostly a hobby, nearly on the level of collecting stamps or
coins.

I think you have described the situation in the U.S. just right.
Most Americans rarely if ever leave the country, and when they
do it's usually just a short vacation in some tourist area that
caters to gringos anyway.  Spanish may be growing, but that's
really only because the borders are out of control and the
number of immigrants is increasing.  You can expect that the
children will be fluent in English, if not bilingual. I also
expect to see the same situation in Latin America where most
people can go through life needing only Spanish or Portuguese.

Unlike you though, I have been outside the U.S.  I've actually
been amazed at just how far English alone goes throughout the
world.  I have seen very few major cities where there isn't at
least an L2 English speaker handy to help out when I can't
communicate directly with someone.  

> > If that is true, we might as well give up and go home.  I
don't
> > believe that is true, as many people try learning a foreign
language
> > eg. at evening classes, but very few achieve any kind of
fluency.
> 
> Indeed.  Despite my fascination with linguistics (in my own
case, more
> properly, philology), I have studied three different languages
(French,
> Greek, and Latin) at high school and university level without
really
> mastering any of them.  Foreign L1s seem to be extremely
difficult for
> most (if not quite all) adult learners to master, even if
those L2s are
> in the same language family.  That is why I support the idea
of
> simplified conIALs.  Granted, if some conIAL should ever
really take
> off, children, who do not have the language difficulties of
adults,
> would learn it when young, but first we have to get from here 
> to there, which involves adult learners.

I can say I've studied quite a few languages myself, with
varying degrees of success though I have yet to become fluent in
any of them.  Actually, I've probably forgotten more than I can
remember these days.  In my own case, there were two major
barriers: time, and immersion.  Between having to make a living
and my other interests, I just haven't been able to devote the
time needed to practice any language.  The other issue is lack
of immersion.  I've found that I learn best by doing, not
running through drills in a book.  I picked up more Spanish in a
two-week trip to Costa Rica than I ever picked up in books,
television or elsewhere.  Most of the French I forgot came back
to me in France, and likewise I once met a nice German girl that
triggered my memory to produce some German.  Just being in a
situation where I actually need to use the language makes it
sink in so much easier.  The problem is that afterward I  forgot
most of it.   The internet helps somewhat, but it's mostly
written communication, so there's not much opportunity to
practice realtime speaking and listening skills.


> >> [...]

> I'm not sure this is the case, although I myself have listened
to
> literally almost no Esperanto from fluent speakers.  What
precious
> little I have heard did not sound especially Slavic.  For that
matter,
> I have heard almost *no* spoken conIALs.  As I have mentioned
in the
> past, for me personally conIAls are mostly written codes, not
real
> spoken languages.  For example, in my part of the USA, where
could I
> encounter fluent Ido, LsF, or LFN speakers?  (I even once
tried to
> contact the local Esperanto group, and their newsletter was
more in
> English than Esperanto.)

I haven't bothered with any organizations, mainly because I find
they tend to be more like social clubs than anything else.
People will meet and interect, but very little action is taken
to further the common interest of the group.

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