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CONLANG  September 2008, Week 3

CONLANG September 2008, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Noun cases in Tirelat

From:

Jake B <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 18 Sep 2008 02:21:23 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (97 lines)

I'd say case, personally.

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Herman Miller <[log in to unmask]> 

> I'm going over the Tirelat grammar to take a break from the vocabulary 
> work, and improve the documentation. The current topic is noun cases. 
> It's questionable whether I should call them cases at all, since they're 
> marked not on the noun but a particle attached to the start of the noun 
> phrase. Case and number are fused into a single word. E.g. 
> 
> saj zarvi ċik 
> NOM.PL bare rock 
> (the) bare rocks 
> 
> The adjective and the noun remain uninflected. There may be an argument 
> for considering nominative and accusative as the only two "real" cases, 
> since there is agreement on the verb for each of those, and pronouns 
> have separate nominative vs. accusative forms, but I'll continue using 
> "case" for the rest of these noun phrase particles. 
> 
> As I've mentioned, nominative and accusative are two prominent cases. 
> Most intransitive verbs have a nominative subject, and most transitive 
> verbs have a subject in the nominative and an object in the accusative. 
> The nominative case tends to be used for agents and experiencers, and 
> the accusative case for patients (but also destinations and some other 
> usages). 
> 
> The nominative case has three forms: su (animate singular), sy 
> (inanimate singular) and saj (plural). This is the only case so far that 
> distinguishes between animate and inanimate nouns, although it's 
> possible that other cases may make this distinction. The accusative case 
> marker is my (singular) or maj (plural). 
> 
> Some verbs also have an indirect object, which will be in the dative 
> case (na/naj, used typically for a recipient or a beneficiary). The 
> locative case (vë/vaj) represents the location of an action. 
> 
> Now for the more interesting ones. Some verbs, of which "veste" (to 
> dance) is typical, have an extra subject (kë/kaj). I call this the 
> "comitative" case, since the English translations of these verbs tend to 
> use "with" where Tirelat uses this case. 
> 
> Another lesser used case (dy/daj) is one that I haven't had a name for, 
> but I'm thinking of "ablative". Typically, it's used for non-volitional 
> agents, or the agent of a passive verb, which according to Wikipedia are 
> possible uses of the ablative case in Latin, and I've also considered 
> using this case to represent the "source" of an action (one translation 
> of English "from" or "out of"). 
> 
> Then there are the two remaining cases, which unlike the preceding 
> cases, are not associated with particular "argument slots" of verbs. The 
> vocative case, used to direct a comment to a particular listener (or 
> listeners) has only a single form (ee), not distinguished by singular or 
> plural. 
> 
> The last case (u/aj) is one that I've been calling "oblique", as it 
> typically is not associated with a verb; its most typical use is as the 
> object of a locative noun phrase. 
> 
> vë lak u łivi žeġ 
> LOC.SG over OBL.SG lazy dog 
> over the lazy dog 
> 
> However, the "Swallow Song" translation on the Tirelat web page 
> (original at http://archives.conlang.info/shi/jhoezan/bibiaghein.html) 
> has a couple of unusual usages of this case. 
> 
> jë-kóta -z u zhemi nallu, u zhemi rága 
> 3s-carry-IPF OBL beautiful hour OBL beautiful year 
> bringing hours of beauty, years of beauty 
> 
> ty rílh -ë-njem sha mifsi -njem zhlara-ru -ka -j u tegla 
> and wheat- -bread nor legume-bread refuse-PAS-NEG-GA OBL swallow 
> And the swallow does not disdain wheat-bread or pulse-porridge, either. 
> 
> zhúvi, zhúvi u shúru më-bala-ta -j na tegla 
> open open OBL door 3s-set -DEO-GA DAT swallow 
> Open, open the door for the swallow 
> 
> I don't know if I should try to account for these cases. Maybe it would 
> be better to make a new translation from the original Czirehlat version 
> from 2001 (http://archives.conlang.info/kau/sueljei/jhorqaenghein.html), 
> or directly from the original Greek. 
> 
> kóta -z me jémi nállu, me jémi rága 
> carry-IMPF(PART) OBJ beautiful hour OBJ beautiful year 
> 
> te me ríhl -e-niém sza mífsi -niém se tégla jelára-kai 
> and OBJ wheat- -bread nor legume-bread SUBJ swallow refuse-NEG 
> 
> júvi, júvi se szúru bála-tai na tégla 
> open open OBJ door set -DEON DAT swallow 
> 
> (Either the "se" or the "OBJ" in the last line must be a mistake, but 
> I'm not sure whether "se" or "me" is correct in this case.) 

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