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CONLANG  October 2008, Week 2

CONLANG October 2008, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Collaborative conlang - Third time's the charm?

From:

"David J. Peterson" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 9 Oct 2008 01:04:31 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (98 lines)

Do you really need a grammar, even?  You could always instead
of that just use the Kelenala wordlist and put a moratorium on
new lexemes (new vocabulary would have to be built), and both
it and the grammar could be built up gradually:

http://dedalvs.free.fr/kelenala/wordlist.html

Just a thought.

-David
*******************************************************************
"A male love inevivi i'ala'i oku i ue pokulu'ume o heki a."
"No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."

-Jim Morrison

http://dedalvs.free.fr/

On Oct 9, 2008, at 1207 AM, Gary Shannon wrote:

> It's that time again. Time to try to launch another collaborative  
> project in linguistic anarchy. My last two collaborative conlang  
> projects were interesting, but ultimately not terribly successful.  
> (Kalusa - conlang archives May 2006... and another project from  
> longer ago. I don't recall the name.)
>
> So here's my latest brainstorm: Start with a simplified "bootstrap"  
> proto-language along the lines of Toki Pona (but without all the  
> excessive ambiguity). That bootstrap language is used for all  
> discussions about the emerging collaborative conlang, so that  
> people who do not share the same native language can all discuss  
> and work on the conlang using the bootstrap language. And in fact,  
> that bootstrap language would eventually evolve INTO the  
> collaborative conlang. One problem with that is that the original  
> bootstrap language would already have put its stamp on the eventual  
> collaborative conlang where basic vocabulary and grammar are  
> concerned.
>
> Therefore, the original bootstrap proto-language could be set up  
> with "placeholder" words for the initial vocabulary. To distinguish  
> between "real" words and placeholder words, all placeholder words  
> would be written in UPPER CASE ONLY. Placeholder words would NOT  
> reflect the eventual phonology, or morphology of the evolving  
> conlang, because they are disposable placeholders only. The  
> bootstrap proto-language would have the placeholder name  
> "TAK" (talk). The real name may or may not be discovered later by  
> participants in the project.
>
> Grammar would be a simple SVO positional grammar with the very  
> minimum of features. This too, would be disposable as the "real"  
> grammar emerged and evolved to replace the placeholder grammar.
>
> The only hurdle to participation would be the necessity of learning  
> the handful of placeholder words and the minimal grammar so that it  
> would be possible to use the bootstrap language to discuss and  
> evolve the emerging conlang.
>
> For that it would be necessary first to have a quick and easy  
> course of instruction to pick up the bootstrap grammar and  
> vocabulary. This would need to be available in many natural  
> languages so that people from diverse linguistic backgrounds could  
> all participate. The second requirement would be a forum where  
> discussions could be held IN the bootstrap language. Finally, an  
> interactive database would be needed for registered users to  
> contribute discovered vocabulary to the dictionary.
>
> There would be no "official" dictionary, because any forum member  
> could contribute any word or grammatical principle. Whether that  
> word remains in the language would depend only on whether other  
> community members used that word. The same would apply to rules of  
> grammar, declensions and case endings (if verbs and nouns are  
> eventually inflected), number of noun classes and their properties,  
> and so on. Rules would remain rules if and only if they are  
> generally adopted by the community. In fact, the language might not  
> even have an "official" name. It would be called whatever people  
> called it.
>
> Eventually all the UPPER CASE placeholder words would disappear and  
> the real grammar would emerge to displace the simplified  
> placeholder grammar, and a new language would be born which was not  
> "designed" by any one person, but, to use an old favorite phrase of  
> mine, "used into existence."
>
> Some preliminary quick-study lessons (40 sample sentences) for the  
> bootstrap language can be found here: http://fiziwig.com/tak/ 
> tak01.html along with links to a forum (still empty of posts) and a  
> dictionary database with some 75 or 80 placeholder TAK words  
> (borrowed from Toki Pona and Ilomi (thanks Larry)), and an  
> interface for registered forum members to add words to the  
> dictionary database.
>
> There is NO official policy, NO official grammar, NO official  
> lexicon, and NOBODY to set themselves up as the authority on what  
> is or is not "correct". Usage is king, and nothing else matters.  
> Complete linguistic anarchy prevails.
>
> --gary

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