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AUXLANG  November 2008, Week 1

AUXLANG November 2008, Week 1

Subject:

Re: World government = world language? (< "Artificial" prejudice)

From:

deinx nxtxr <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Sat, 1 Nov 2008 19:36:10 -0400

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (88 lines)

> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of steve rice

> > I meant rather sophisticated texts where it's difficult
> > to be limited to basic vocabulary. 
> 
> Learners probably won't be using "sophisticated texts" so 
> much. By the time you're looking at those, you should already 
> have a good grasp of the basic language.

You need to learn to crawl before you learn to walk.  A beginner
will be reading/writing/speaking the most basic sentences and
structures.  


> ...
> 
> The problem is that some languages don't handle minimal 
> vocabularies well. You need a system that handles derivation 
> predictably, as in Eo, Ido, and (to a lesser extent) Occ. LFN 
> would work too. Interlingua is a bad choice here.

This is the part where I give the Esperantic languages a lot of
credit.  The building block approach is very easy to learn and use.



> > ... Having sound in electronic books is not a problem. Also
speech
> > recognition systems exist already.
> > 
> That's not the issue. The issue is, when you hear a word as 
> part of the speech flow, you don't have time to look it up. 
> So the more items you have to learn, the harder aural 
> comprehension will be.

And it's very possible for someone who is exposed exclusively to the
written language to learn to read and write but still lack the
skills necessary for speaking and listening.  



> > > ...
> > 
> > There is one method of teaching foreign languages in Russia,
namely
> > Ilia Frank's one. It's essence is that you
> > don't try to remember new
> > words and just keep reading. If you read enough, new words
> > are
> > memorised on their own, as it were.
> 
> But only if you aren't overwhelmed by new words. That's what 
> the 10% rule is for: to ensure that the reader can figure out 
> and retain new words. 

And more importantly, a person faced with too many unfamiliar words
could become overwhelmed and just give up.

> ...
> > I didn't look to Interlingua much but I remember finding it
extremely
> > difficult. I don't think it is easier than Sambahsa, if you are
not a
> > person speaking a west European language.
> > 
> However, it has a number of synonyms and other hallmarks of 
> "expressivity and powerfulness," which was the point you were 
> making. Also, Ia is at-sight readable to a lot of people (who 
> already know a Romance language, yes), so it has a larger 
> potential audience. So Ia has the advantage you ascribe to 
> Sambahsa, along with an extra advantage or so, yet it lacks 
> several of Sambahsa's negatives (oddball vowels, weird 
> spelling, etc.).

I have to admit in the early stages of designing a WAL, I pondered
the idea of an IE-based vocabulary, but PIE is so primeval that they
don't resemble to the offspring langugages very much, neither in
form or semantically, thus leaving something that may as well be a
priori.  About the only obvious IE word that made it into the final
product is "sek" (=to say).  Ultimately I gave up and figured the
only way to really leave a mnemonic would be to use forms that are
close enough to something in a modern living language, then balance
the load by pulling from different language groups so no one group
is favored.

As an artlang, I have great respect for Sambhasa, but it has too
many features which make it impractical for auxlang use.

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