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AUXLANG  November 2008, Week 1

AUXLANG November 2008, Week 1

Subject:

Re: World government = world language? (< "Artificial" prejudice)

From:

Matthew Barnett <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

International Auxiliary Languages <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 4 Nov 2008 00:08:26 +0000

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (64 lines)

steve rice wrote:
> --- On Sun, 11/2/08, Olivier Simon <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
>> That's the problem with having a regular orthograph and a
>> predictable grammar: Some forms may look daunting (though, 
>> "dauntingness" is a matter of relativity too; "coughing" or 
>> "swallowed" look daunting for a speaker of French).
> 
> Another argument against using English.
> 
>> The major sources of vocabulary for sambahsa, besides the IE core,
>> are Romance, other European families and "Muslim"languages
>> (Sinitic words are less common, such as "nowngmin" or "gwirlay").
>> The broader the distribution, the more forbidding will be the
>> outlook of the auxlang.
> 
> True.
> 
>> It is surely easier to build a vocabulary out of a single existing
>> language, but the risk is that the auxlang gets too much influenced
>> by the source language, so that a code-switching may appear and
>> blur the apparent primeval simplicity of the auxlang.
> 
> Also true. One of the problems of Interlingua is that it simplifies
> the learning and even usage task for people with the right background
> by assuming a lot of information. If you're familiar with a Romance
> language in particular, it works really well. Otherwise not. And it
> also is constantly being pulled toward Romance expectations.
> 
> But consider Occ as a counterexample: because it has a strong
> Germanic component, especially in the grammar, it seems to resist
> such tendencies, yet it is very readable. The lesson seems to be that
> introducing elements that distance the project from its apparent
> lexical sources can keep those sources from taking over. This can be
> as simple as spelling (using <k> for [k]) or tweaking some obvious
> point of grammar/syntax (Occ is an adj-noun language, and it tends to
> put object pronouns after verbs).
> 
> This also argues for having a basic vocabulary, because then the
> words can be defined properly and their true meanings be absorbed by
> repetition. In fact, a limited basic vocabulary practically
> guarantees distance from lexical sources, because most "natural"
> languages have overspecified vocabularies.
> 
>> While German follows the same model as English "spielende Kinder" =
>> "playing children" Luxembourg Frankish acts the same as French:
>> "Kanner, déi spillen" = "des enfants qui jouent".
> 
> Actually, both constructions are fairly common in English.
> 
>> But, some may say "spillend Kanner" by imitation of German, though
>> "-end" normally does not exist in Luxembourg Frankish. Such
>> inconveniences may occur with an auxlang too much linked to a
>> natlang.
> 
> Again, it happens in Ia and seems to be happening in LFN. But both
> languages copy Romance a little too much with noun-adjective ordering
> and other details. I admit I'm surprised that LFN has overcome its
> creolish appearance to drift in a Romance direction. If only they had
> used <k>...
> 
I don't have a problem with the noun-adjective ordering, but I do prefer
the object pronoun to follow the verb like an object noun would.

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