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AUXLANG  November 2008, Week 1

AUXLANG November 2008, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Obami

From:

steve rice <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

[log in to unmask]

Date:

Fri, 7 Nov 2008 12:26:57 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (112 lines)

--- On Thu, 11/6/08, Rick Harrison <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> On Thu, 6 Nov 2008 12:57:14 -0800, steve rice
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> 
> >I can provide my mailing adress if you'd like to
> send me a check. I don't
> do PayPal, and I don't listen to talk radio either. It
> seems to me that
> judging something in advance of checking it out is called
> prejudice. If you
> can get a one-buck cure for your condition, you may keep
> the money.
> 
> I will send cash or postage stamps. I’m not going to
> write a check for one
> dollar.

Last time I looked, sending currency through the mail was illegal. While I am not yet reduced to eating postage, under Obama food stamps will likely become inevitable.
 
> >Actually, as it's properly understood, the English
> Only movement is not at
> all antithetical to auxlanging; rather, it's an obvious
> corollary of it.
> 
> If an auxlang becomes popular and is used by, for example,
> a lot of tourists
> and immigrants, it would be logical to provide road signs
> and 911 emergency
> telephone service in the auxlang. English Only legislation
> would prevent that.

And we're back to India! I don't see this situation arising in the next century or two; should we base our laws on might (in)conceivably happen that far down the line?

> Some Native Americans have said that English Only
> legislation will interfere
> with their efforts to keep their languages alive, e.g. by
> eliminating state
> funding for schools that operate in Native American
> languages.
> 
Contrary to the op-ed piece below, it probably wouldn't be that hard to make an exception. However,

1. Since we're apparently on the verge of a global auxlang anyway (see above), presumably the kids will be distracted by learning it as well as a Native American language.

2. The major reason for requiring English is to avoid linguistic ghettoes, even self-imposed ones. While preserving a language is a noble goal, keeping kids from proper proficiency in English will keep them marginalized and poor. Perhaps keeping a group of people marginalized, poor, and on the Reservation (presumably "where they belong") is a goal of English-Ony opponents.

3. If you check studies, attempts to keep a language going through schooling doesn't work that well anyway. It might work if you cut off access to English, but that would involve language cops and a self-imposed ghetto again.

4. It's hard enough to teach kids basic skills without burdening them with learning a language as well. Bear in mind that this is why bilingual education is supposed to help non-English speaking kids. If the children were fluent in the Native language but not in English, the bilingual ed argument could be used, but as it stands, there's a contradiction. (In case you wonder, the bilingual ed argument doesn't work well because kids will naturally and swiftly pick up whatever the ambient language is, and courtesy of entertainment media, it will be English in the US. But that argument runs against requiring kids to learn basic subjects in a language without such overwhelming environmental support.)
 http://www.humnet.ucla.edu/humnet/linguistics/people/grads/macswan/update2.htm
> says it eloquently:

The apposite adverb here is "prejudicially." No charge for the edit.
 
> "Second, there would be no way to exempt Native
> Americans from the political
> impact of an English-only law. 

I'm reasonably sure I've seen such exceptions made in areas with local English-Only laws, but I'll let it go. The next part's more fun:

Xenophobes tend not to make
> fine
> distinctions. For many if not all English-only advocates,
> the intent is to
> harass and denigrate people who look, sound, and live
> differently from
> members of the dominant culture. 

Translation: I don't like these people and probably never actually heard one out. So I'll resort to an ad hominem and call them all bigots, even though that's about like saying all Jews are greedy or all blacks are good at sports (i.e., an unjustifiable generalization).

Let's be honest, here: since Rex and I (and apparently Dana too) support English-Only, are you calling us bigots--especially when you apparently don't know or care what our reasons are? Doesn't that sound a bit bigoted in its own right?

Native peoples meet these
> criteria as well
> as Hispanic and Asian immigrants. Even if enacted in a
> purely symbolic form,
> with no legal teeth, an English-only law would legitimate
> and encourage
> chauvinism toward all minority languages – e.g., when it
> came time for
> Congress or state legislatures to appropriate money for
> language
> preservation programs. Public attitudes, now largely
> indifferent to the fate
> of endangered languages, would likely be harder to change
> or even become
> more hostile."

And so the academic excellence of a generation of Native-immigrant-whatever kids is sacrificed in the hope of pulling off a trick that seldom works anyway. It would also increase bigotry, because it would then be true that most X kids don't know English. As an editor, I'm seeing a lot of putatively native speakers producing what I would ordinarily call L2 errors. I don't want to see that grow even worse.
 
> That pretty well sums up the essence of all conservatism in
> America: an
> attempt to harass and denigrate people who look, sound, and
> live differently
> from members of the dominant culture. It's organized
> bullying under the
> guise of God and Country.

Wow! So "all conservatism" is bigoted! Well, that sure saves time bothering to understand the reasoning involved. "Sorry, you're a bigot; just step into the showers, and we'll clean you off..."
 
> (But please don't assume that I'm a liberal. My own
> positions are rather
> exotic and no one has coined a word for them yet.)

I could suggest a few, but I normally don't use such language.

Steve


      

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