LISTSERV mailing list manager LISTSERV 16.5

Help for TEI-L Archives


TEI-L Archives

TEI-L Archives


TEI-L@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

TEI-L Home

TEI-L Home

TEI-L  January 2009

TEI-L January 2009

Subject:

Re: Forme-work?

From:

Martin Holmes <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Martin Holmes <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:09:19 -0800

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (112 lines)

Hi Brett,

Brett Zamir wrote:
> Hi Martin and all,
> 
> I can't really see any pseudo-classes which would be strictly necessary 
> on a per-element level, at least to indicate /original/ formatting, 
> though I guess it wouldn't hurt to allow them.

The example that started this discussion, the pilcrow preceding every 
<head>, is one such.

> By the way, I had forgotten there is already a CSS quotes property. 
> Also, this CSS3 spec draft is very interesting: 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-content/
> 
> As far as stylesheets, while they may not strictly be necessary, by 
> using global selectors, it can avoid a lot of duplication (though it 
> makes it more difficult to do something (without scripting) like allow 
> document consumers to search only for specific text that is in italics, 
> as the user may have remembered it as such without knowing its element 
> type).

Would it? If you can search for <hi rend="italics">, can't you search 
for <hi cssClass="whatever">?

> As far as xml-stylesheet though, I think, as it is sometimes hard to do, 
> it should always be kept in mind that the styling information within a 
> TEI document is referring to the formatting of the original. Use of 
> xml-stylesheet, while allowable in XML, indicates the desired output 
> formatting, as opposed to semantically indicating the original 
> formatting, so it is fine to use it (at least it is guaranteed to work 
> if targeting an external file), but targeting an inner style tag would, 
> if it worked and is allowed in TEI, would use that formatting as output 
> formatting, raising the question of whether <html:style> in TEI was also 
> to indicate original formatting. Regardless, I personally agree some tag 
> should exist to provide a stylesheet for the original formatting. 
> Perhaps it would be best to have a different tag from <html:style> so as 
> to distinguish output formatting from original formatting, if people 
> wanted to include two different stylesheets within a document (probably 
> not a good idea, but...), and also to make clear that this is 
> semantically different than the HTML style tag which only indicates 
> output formatting.

That makes perfect sense. Perhaps because of the actual texts I'm 
working on right now (French 17c printed books), CSS is proving more 
than adequate to capture everything I need to capture about the 
appearance of the original text; actual output display would be done 
using XSLT, rather than <html:style>, but in this case it would be 
practical to use the descripive information in an internal stylesheet to 
provide a functional and useful view of the text which might help the 
markup team as they work.

> I notice, however, that in using <html:style> (in Firefox at least), 
> even without xml-stylesheet, use of <html:style> actually does apply the 
> styling to the document (and doesn't render the style contents). But if 
> <html:style> is meant to only indicate original formatting in TEI, then 
> this is a problem (at least with Firefox), since in such a case, it 
> should not be used as formatting instructions without xml-stylesheet 
> explicitly targeting it (in XHTML, the recommended usage per 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#C_14 is to specify <?xml-stylesheet?> for 
> each inner style tag). It also seems like html:style should only work 
> (if it works at all in plain XML documents like TEI) with items in the 
> HTML namespace, but in Firefox at least, this is not the case.
> 
> Unfortunately this convention for xml-stylesheeet in XHTML (at 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/#C_14) is not part of the spec for 
> xml-stylesheet in XML (at http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-stylesheet/) (which 
> might have relied on xml:id, though some hiding of the XML "style" tag 
> would need to have display:none assigned (unless perhaps some element 
> were allowed in the reserved xml: namespace), since all plain XML 
> contents are shown by default). So, plain XML does not seem to allow any 
> formal XML-spec-compliant way to specify an internal stylesheet.

As far as I can see, the W3C specification is clear about applying a CSS 
stylesheet to XML, and it works, at least when the stylesheet is 
external (I haven't tried it internally). You would want to add display: 
none to the teiHeader as a whole, of course, if the stylesheet was 
intended to reproduce something close to the original.

> When trying this in practice, however, Firefox (3.0) at least has some 
> odd behavior in this connection too. For example, this doesn't work at all:
> 
> <?xml-stylesheet href="#myStylesheet" type="text/css"?>
> <root>
> <css xml:id="myStylesheet"><!-- same effect with or without xml:id or 
> with 'id' -->
> el{color:red;}
> </css>
> <el>abc</el>
> </root>

Ah -- then my cunning plan is shot down, at least for Firefox 3.0.

> but when put as a 2nd rule, here it does (but the first rule is ignored):
> 
> <?xml-stylesheet href="#myStylesheet" type="text/css"?>
> <root>
> <css xml:id="myStylesheet"> <!-- same effect with or without xml:id or 
> with 'id'-->
> style{display:none;}
> el{color:red;}
> </css>
> <el>abc</el>
> </root>

That just looks like a bug to me -- do you mean that style{display: 
none} is ignored, but the subsequent el{color: red} works?

Cheers,
Martin

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

Advanced Options


Options

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password


Search Archives

Search Archives


Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe


Archives

October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998
August 1998
July 1998
June 1998
May 1998
April 1998
March 1998
February 1998
January 1998
December 1997
November 1997
October 1997
September 1997
August 1997
July 1997
June 1997
May 1997
April 1997
March 1997
February 1997
January 1997
December 1996
November 1996
October 1996
September 1996
August 1996
July 1996
June 1996
May 1996
April 1996
March 1996
February 1996
January 1996
December 1995
November 1995
October 1995
September 1995
August 1995
July 1995
June 1995
May 1995
April 1995
March 1995
February 1995
January 1995
December 1994
November 1994
October 1994
September 1994
August 1994
July 1994
June 1994
May 1994
April 1994
March 1994
February 1994
January 1994
December 1993
November 1993
October 1993
September 1993
August 1993
July 1993
June 1993
May 1993
April 1993
March 1993
February 1993
January 1993
December 1992
November 1992
October 1992
September 1992
August 1992
July 1992
June 1992
May 1992
April 1992
March 1992
February 1992
January 1992
December 1991
November 1991
October 1991
September 1991
August 1991
July 1991
June 1991
May 1991
April 1991
March 1991
February 1991
January 1991
December 1990
November 1990
October 1990
September 1990
August 1990
July 1990
June 1990
April 1990
March 1990
February 1990
January 1990

ATOM RSS1 RSS2



LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU

CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager