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CONLANG Home

CONLANG  January 2009, Week 1

CONLANG January 2009, Week 1

Subject:

Re: Ambiguity

From:

Edgard Bikelis <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Mon, 5 Jan 2009 09:47:49 -0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (63 lines)

I didn't think hard about it yet, but I would say in ausonian:

méerwis éweqst súunum (moi) kréesyomi itha.
Mary_NOM said son_AC (she_GEN) I-will-feed thus (she said).
'Mary said thus: I will feed (my) son.'

but I feel the genitive is superfluous.

or

méerwis (swe) éweqst kréedhyooi súunum (swoi).
Mary_NOM (self_AC) said to_feed_DAT son_AC self_GEN.
'Mary said (she) herself [was] to feed (her) son.

or even

só súunus swei ésti yós méerwis éwekst kréedhyooi.
that son [that] is for her, this one Mary said [she] is to feed.

I think the genitive is superfluous because 'son' is said just of the
parents; if anyone else is going to feed the poor kid (that might very well
be starving right now, till you decide the matter ; )), in would be a more
general noun, like... kid, or if related, the proper noun to this.

Maybe a reflexive particle would do... maybe an counter-self-genitive suffix
; ) "feed the boy=not-her".

Edgard.


On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 3:22 AM, Roger Mills <[log in to unmask]> wrote:

> In finishing off Prevli Syntax, I've come to a lengthy, complex and rather
> repetitious section dealing with ambiguity in sentences with same-subject 3d
> pers.pronouns, like "he thinks he is sick", "he said that he thinks he is
> sick" and many others. Or, "he asked whether he knew that he had eaten
> rotten meat?"  True, in a discourse, there will probably be context that
> clarifies matters, but in the absence of context, no. One could always stick
> in personal names.
>
> An additional problem that gets a lot of attention is that Prevli has
> inalienable possession, so that in a sentence like "Mary says that she will
> feed the baby", _baby_ MUST carry a possessive suffix, usually -z, so
> "titi-z" 'baby' can mean 'his/her baby' or (in context) 'the baby'. One
> would assume that we mean "Mary will feed (her own) baby", but what if Mary
> is an aunt, a sitter, or just a helpful friend, etc. ?  (The pronoun "she"
> is also ambiguous-- Mary? someone else?) How necessary would it be to be
> absolutely precise in cases like this? Or should we just leave it to our old
> friend "context"?
>
> There are indeed ways to disambiguate in Prevli, which of course will be
> discussed; but I'm wondering just how many example sentences are worth
> citing, and whether the discussion can be abridged considerably.
>
> How do various other conlangs deal with ambiguities like this? Has the
> problem arisen? How much attention is it really worth?
>
> All suggestions welcomed.
>
>
>
>

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