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CONLANG  April 2009, Week 2

CONLANG April 2009, Week 2

Subject:

Re: Ketchup (was Re: ts (<: Phonotactics))

From:

Tristan McLeay <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 10 Apr 2009 19:13:31 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (67 lines)

On 10/04/09 19:05:49, Garth Wallace wrote:
...
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2009 at 9:18 AM, Tristan McLeay
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > Renown English phonetician John C. Wells argues that intervocallic
> > /tr/ [1] must be a coda because it is glottalised, i.e. a word like
> > "Patrick" has to be syllabified as /p&tr.Ik/ because it is
> > [p_h&tr)_?Ik] [2]. This leads us to the I think unhappy conclusion
> that
> > /tr/ can be an onset and it can be a coda, but only if a vowel
> follows.
> > Other phonologists have claimed that in non-rhotic English
> varieties,
> > /r/ is likewise permitted in the onset, but can only be in the coda
> if
> > a vowel follows, so that "arid" (say) is [&r.@d]. I forget the
> exact
> > justification for this, but it's at least partly to let the linking
> [r]
> > go in the coda. I personally think this is a funny desire, given
> that
> > the entire reason for a linking consonant is to make sure every
> > syllable has an onset! (if no word was before, the onset is of
> course
> > [?]; if a word ending in a consonant was before, the onset the
> > consonant that was before --- this is especially clear in varieties
> > like RP which alternate between dark [5] in codas and light [l] in
> > onsets; a word like "little" ends in [5] unless a vowel-initial
> word
> > follows, when it's [l]).
>
> Wow, that's a funny claim. For me the first syllable is pretty
> clearly
> open.

There's a few claims in that para, which one in particular was funny?

...
> > On 10/04/09 15:07:28, caeruleancentaur wrote:
> >> BTW, "An Etymological Dictionary of Modern English" says that
> >> 'catsup'
> >> is incorrect.
> >
> > Yeah, but so's "ketchup". The stuff's called "(tomato) sauce". Or,
> on a
> > dog's eye (meat pie), "dead horse". When I worked in the restaurant
> in
> > Ikea there were lots of kids who either didn't know what "ketchup"
> > meant or clearly took pride in showing off their knowledge to their
> > siblings/friends. (Yeah, the reason I replied to this post was to
> make
> > sure you know I'm Australian ;)
>
> For me, "tomato sauce" is stewed tomato puree (usually canned),
> usually used as the main ingredient in marinara sauce for pasta. Now
> I've got a mental image of spaghetti covered in ketchup. BRB,
> vomiting...

People have done that before. Spaghetti and "ketchup" I mean, hopefully
not the vomiting bit. Personally I'm not a huge fan of bought tomato
sauce, so I put pasta sauce on sausages and meatballs and the like when
I feel they need it.

--
Tristan.

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