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CONLANG  April 2009, Week 3

CONLANG April 2009, Week 3

Subject:

Re: Deriving nouns from verbs

From:

Benct Philip Jonsson <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Constructed Languages List <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Tue, 21 Apr 2009 09:36:43 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (81 lines)

On 2009-04-20 Garth Wallace wrote:
> I'm actually going to go with just a nomen agentis. Since
>  voices are derivational, the "nomen patientis" would
> just be the nomen agentis of the passive (or middle).
> 

Even if you use the same derivational suffix you
still must differentiate the Latinate terms: since
_agent_ litterally means 'doer' and _patient_
literally means 'undergoer' or 'sufferer' it makes
no sense to call the nominalization of the passive
participle an 'agent noun'.  I suggest that you
don't try to retrofit the terminology of your
grammar to that of latin grammar, but roll your
own term, like _active/passive participial noun_.

AFMOC Mærik also uses active/passive participles
as agent/patient nouns but it uses zero
derivation, i.e. just uses the participle as a
noun without further ado.  From the POW of Mærik
itself there is no 'double meaning'; that
_lekartan_ can or must sometimes be translated as
'the one who is speaking' and sometimes as 'the
speaker' is a complication of English grammar
which is simply absent in Mærik grammar.  That
_lekatan_ can mean both 'that which is spoken' and
'the one spoken to' is OTOH a real ambiguity in
Mærik grammar.  It can however be disawbiguated by
using a full relative clause for the former
meaning, if context doesn't make things
sufficiently clear. BTW Mærik is like English in
that _-rt_, properly the active participle suffix
can be attached to a noun or adjective to get a
new noun or adjective meaning 'someone who works
with/keeps/makes etc. X' as _quikert_
'goater/goat-herd' _jwart_ /'ju:art/ 'shoemaker',
_amnort_ 'belittler' made from the words for
'goat, shoe, little'.  At the same time the
passive participle ending _-t_ is also a general
ending for deriving adjectives from nouns, so
_amn_ is ' a little fellow, a halfling', while
_amnot_ is both the adjectives 'small' and
'belittled', the latter meaning normally being
disambiguated by the addition of a suitable noun,
pronoun or name in the instrumental, e.g. _amnot
Thormodh(o)gh_ 'belittled by Thormod', _amnot
roogh_ 'belittled by him'.  The fly in the
ointment is that here is no verb _*amno_; there is
a verb _klæghia_ 'make small(er)' and an adjective
_grøt_ 'small', but 'belittle' is _tera amnot_,
literally 'make belittled'.

It is still an open question if the people
referred to as _amnon_ 'the little fellows',
probably the Mærik speakers, were actually
physically smaller than _verghen_ 'the big
fellows' or if it somehow has a meaning 'the
belittled ones, the belittled people'.  It seems
pretty clear that they were an original people
pushed aside and enslaved by the _verghen_.  Other
terms for them are _døirt_ 'the plowers' for
_verghen_ and (the more common) _tortullun_ 'the
mattockers' for _amnon_. _Amn_ clearly had
negative connotations which _tortull_ hadn't. (BTW
_-ull_ is another ending for deriving 'man
associated with X' nouns. The difference is that
_-ull_ makes predictions about the gender of the
person which _-rt_ doesn't.  The 'feminines'
corresponding to _-ull_ words are compounds with
_wan_ 'woman' and _men(n)_ 'girl', e.g. _tortwan_
'hacker-woman'.)

/BP 8^)>
-- 
Benct Philip Jonsson -- melroch atte melroch dotte se
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
  "C'est en vain que nos Josués littéraires crient
  à la langue de s'arrêter; les langues ni le soleil
  ne s'arrêtent plus. Le jour où elles se *fixent*,
  c'est qu'elles meurent."           (Victor Hugo)

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